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Post by bigbullwill on Mar 14, 2008 19:17:40 GMT -5
DOES ANY HAVE ANY PREFERENCES ON BLOODLINES- MY MALE IS WINEGARNER AND SORRELS AND MY FEMALE IS CHAOS , I LIKE THE CHAOS BECAUSE OF HOW SHORT AND STOCKY THEY ARE
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Post by valliesong on Mar 14, 2008 22:33:53 GMT -5
I like shelter dogs. I pick my pets by temperament, not genetics.
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Jay
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Post by Jay on Mar 15, 2008 3:08:02 GMT -5
i really dont care about bloodlines but mine is razors edge
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 17, 2008 9:06:26 GMT -5
I am an OFRN girl in APBT. In AmStaffs, anything linebred Ruffian.
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Post by valliesong on Mar 18, 2008 14:58:15 GMT -5
I thought Razor's Edge were those "American Bullies," not APBTs.
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 18, 2008 15:07:45 GMT -5
I thought Razor's Edge were those "American Bullies," not APBTs. Razor's Edge is definitely of the "bully" type of APBT - I know a lot of people holler that the bloodline probably contains bulldog/mastiff blood. Some of the dogs claiming Razor's Edge blood certainly look mixed to me. As far as "American Bullies"...dunno. I have no idea what the American Bully people have set criteria wise. Maybe RE dogs do qualify as American Bullies. ???
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yillo
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Post by yillo on Mar 19, 2008 20:10:39 GMT -5
for my choice i got to say Gotti
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 20, 2008 6:56:17 GMT -5
for my choice i got to say Gotti Why Gotti?
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Jay
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Post by Jay on Mar 21, 2008 19:08:41 GMT -5
I thought Razor's Edge were those "American Bullies," not APBTs. Razor's Edge is definitely of the "bully" type of APBT - I know a lot of people holler that the bloodline probably contains bulldog/mastiff blood. Some of the dogs claiming Razor's Edge blood certainly look mixed to me. As far as "American Bullies"...dunno. I have no idea what the American Bully people have set criteria wise. Maybe RE dogs do qualify as American Bullies. ??? so does mine not look APBT enough or look like its mixed? cause mine looks no different then yours and hes registured through UKC as APBT. i also have pictures of the last 7 generations of his bloodline. if you can explain more what you mean id appreciate it
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Post by bigbullwill on Mar 21, 2008 20:09:27 GMT -5
I THINK RAZORS EDGE THAT COME FROM THE SOURCE ARE MORE OF THE AMERICAN BULLY TYPE, THE RESEMBLE MORE OF A CROSS BETWEEN A PITBULL AND ENGLISH BULLDOG OR MAYBE SOME KIND OF MASTIFF (FRENCH MASTIFF, NEO) YOU CAN CHECK THEM OUT AT KILLINOIS KENNELS.COM AND ELITE EDGE.COM
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 22, 2008 8:51:29 GMT -5
Razor's Edge is definitely of the "bully" type of APBT - I know a lot of people holler that the bloodline probably contains bulldog/mastiff blood. Some of the dogs claiming Razor's Edge blood certainly look mixed to me. As far as "American Bullies"...dunno. I have no idea what the American Bully people have set criteria wise. Maybe RE dogs do qualify as American Bullies. ??? so does mine not look APBT enough or look like its mixed? cause mine looks no different then yours and hes registured through UKC as APBT. i also have pictures of the last 7 generations of his bloodline. if you can explain more what you mean id appreciate it Jay, Razor's Edge bloodlines are used in the breeding programs of certain kennels with questionable ethics. Whether or not the founders of Razor's Edge actually used bulldog/mastiff blood to create a bigger, heavier dog I do not know. But it seems clear that many breeders who utilize RE blood seek to produce really big, over-done dogs - many of these dogs are now registered as what are called, "American Bullys". (See the American Bully thread for more info. ) American Bullys are registered APBTs and ASTs that look a certain way - if you look at some of these dogs, it is difficult to imagine that they are purebred APBTs. There are lots of unscrupulous breeders out there now, producing all kinds of fad dogs that have questionable pedigrees. As a for instance, the breeders producing merle dogs and registering them with the ADBA and claiming their dogs were purebred. It has now been established that these dogs were most likely mixed with Catahoulas because the merle color genetically was not part of the APBT's genetic makeup. Merle APBTs are now no longer registerable with the ADBA and merle is a disqualification within UKC. I hope it will eventually be the same way with these grossly oversized, overdone dogs, which historically do not represent the APBT breed. For instance: Look at these dogs from an ADBA show, which physically represent the APBT breed historically www.pitbull-chat.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=3vs These dogs from a kennel boasting 100% RE blood ohoopeeriverkennels.com/studs.htmlThe difference is immense. Anyway, this is by no means a slam on your dog, who is lovely. And I am not saying your dog is mixed.
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Post by valliesong on Mar 22, 2008 23:00:37 GMT -5
Did you notice the last two dogs on that page, one only lived to 2 years (died from swallowing a piece of toy) and 6 years (no cause of death listed)?
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Jay
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Post by Jay on Mar 23, 2008 1:10:09 GMT -5
honestly i wouldnt care if mine or any dog of razors edge bloodline was concidered as a poodle. my dog is awsome (IMO) and thats what matters to me. as far as the "standard size" or the "over done size" i chose lucifer before i even knew what bloodline he was and i chose him because he seemed different in personality opposed to his litter mates. as far as the breeders ethics where i got him, i would have to say did not seem questionsable at all to me, opposed to some other breeders that work with RE line that i looked into. personally i prefer the bigger bulkier size, not for any specific reason...thats just me. i dodnt take any of the posts as a slam on my dog, just looking for a more clear answer. to me it seems that the bigger bulkier bloodlines are looked down upon tho....but why? wouldnt that be no different then the pitbulls as a whole being looked down upon in general??
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 23, 2008 7:46:32 GMT -5
to me it seems that the bigger bulkier bloodlines are looked down upon tho....but why? wouldnt that be no different then the pitbulls as a whole being looked down upon in general?? For someone like me, who loves the BREED, and wants to see the breed preserved, yes, it bothers me when unethical breeders produce dogs that do not represent the breed standards set forth by the ADBA and the UKC. The APBT was created to be a working dog, very athletic. Medium-small to medium in size. These monster dogs that weigh 75+ lbs and have too much bulk aren't representative of the breed. Many breeders today lead people to believe that ANY representation of the breed is ok. That it's all "personal opinion". But that's not what breed preservation is about. Preservation is about preserving conformation as well as temperament, and many of these breeders do neither. Breed integrity must be preserved, otherwise you end up with not a breed but a bunch of random dogs who may or may not resemble each other in any way. Take other breeds....like German Shepherd Dogs. What if certain breeders decided it was ok to have brindle GSDs with wirey coats that weighed 20 lbs? They marketed these dogs as 'special, better, unique' and sold them for large sums of money. Wouldn't it matter that historically there were no brindle GSDs with wirey coats that weighed 20 lbs? That the standard does not call for dogs like this, and that these dogs could not compete and win in typical GSD events? As an aside, it has to make you stop and think, when so many of these unethical over-done, large APBT breeders are charging $1,000, $2,000 and up for dogs that cannot compete and win against standard (correct) APBTs, have not been thoroughly health tested/certified, and barely even look like APBTs. Meanwhile, you can get a high quality (CORRECT) show/working bred APBT or AmStaff that has been health tested for $500-$1,000. This isn't about putting down, or "hating on" a DOG. I love all APBTs, or bulldogs no matter what they look like. But from a BREED perspective, I will take a stand against breeders who are messing up my breed by producing sub-standard dogs that look nothing like the breed is supposed to.
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Post by valliesong on Mar 24, 2008 16:26:24 GMT -5
I agree with Mary here. I love dogs of all breeds, types, and sizes, but I simply would not consider these dogs to be pit bulls. That doesn't mean I would never consider adopting one or that I think they are bad dogs. I choose all my pets by temperament.
But if I was choosing a pit bull (APBT or AmStaff) from a breeder because I wanted a dog to compete with or otherwise wanted a purebred dog, I would never buy a dog of this type. They just aren't pit bulls, and in my opinion, shouldn't be purposefully bred. In any case, the breeders are lying to the public when they call these dogs as something they're not.
Then again, I don't think any dog should be bred without a solid working/show history, all genetic health screening, temperament and appearance fitting the breed, and homes lined up for all prospective puppies. Anything less than that is irresponsible and only adding to the pet overpopulation crisis. Puppies created from any other matings are simply causing other dogs to be euthanized.
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Post by AmyJo27 on Mar 24, 2008 17:57:07 GMT -5
I agree with Mary here. I love dogs of all breeds, types, and sizes, but I simply would not consider these dogs to be pit bulls. That doesn't mean I would never consider adopting one or that I think they are bad dogs. I choose all my pets by temperament. But if I was choosing a pit bull (APBT or AmStaff) from a breeder because I wanted a dog to compete with or otherwise wanted a purebred dog, I would never buy a dog of this type. They just aren't pit bulls, and in my opinion, shouldn't be purposefully bred. In any case, the breeders are lying to the public when they call these dogs as something they're not. Then again, I don't think any dog should be bred without a solid working/show history, all genetic health screening, temperament and appearance fitting the breed, and homes lined up for all prospective puppies. Anything less than that is irresponsible and only adding to the pet overpopulation crisis. Puppies created from any other matings are simply causing other dogs to be euthanized. Agreed!!!
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Jay
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Post by Jay on Mar 24, 2008 21:46:15 GMT -5
so with all that being said....my dog is not an APBT even though he's registured through the UKC as a APBT and both his parents are registured through the UKC as APBT? are the dogs at massie's kennels not APBT's (www.massieskennel.com/)???
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Post by valliesong on Mar 24, 2008 23:41:04 GMT -5
so with all that being said....my dog is not an APBT even though he's registured through the UKC as a APBT and both his parents are registured through the UKC as APBT? are the dogs at massie's kennels not APBT's (www.massieskennel.com/)??? A dog can technically be of a certain breed but be so out of type that those registration papers mean nothing. Registration is not a seal of quality, just a sign that the dog's parents were registered. A prime example is puppymill dogs. You can purchase an AKC registered Labrador Retriever with a pedigree tracing back to dogs that were type-y labs, say ten generations ago. The problem is that puppymills and backyard breeders will breed any dog with papers, but without showing/working the dog and having an impartial 3rd party compare the dog to the standard, the dog may not fit the standard. The more generations you breed like this, the less the dog will resemble the standard. In addition to mixing breeds, that's how you can form a new breed - by selecting for different characteristics (or in some cases, not selecting for any characteristics at all).
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Post by AmyJo27 on Mar 25, 2008 8:42:06 GMT -5
Your dog does look like an APBT though, I think any way! It isnt overly bulky or any thing! Im sure your dog meets the breed standard! but I do think a lot of razor edges dogs are not real APBT's!
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Post by bullymommy25 on Apr 17, 2008 9:55:49 GMT -5
Razor's Edge kennels and the Gotti bloodline were not originally so out of whack, and both of the original studs and dams are long gone. They threw many blue pups and had nice muscular bodies. Their worst crime was NOT MANDATING THEIR PUPS BE SPAYED OR NEUTERED!! Fad breeders took these well muscled pups, and liked the fact that the blue dilute gene was so prominant in the line, and latched on to this to claim that blue was some exotic color. In the past ten years, thugs looking for tough looking dogs have taken both blue coated dogs and dogs from lines with rednoses and warped them in the quest for a "mean" dog. Many people think that some of these dogs are bred with mastiffs, but most people believe that the dogs were selectively bred to grow heavier and larger. Not only are these dogs actually LESS athletically fit, they are unhealthy. Many of these "American Bullies" cannot even breathe properly, they can hardly jump, and they certainly are not acceptable to anyone who enjoys the real pit bull. If you look at my girl, she has some ancestors from the Razor's Edge kennel, but the breeders did NOT deviate from the breed standard OR breed only blue dogs. Both of her parents were blue (her dam was a blue brindle), but her grandparents are black, blue, white with black patches, and brindle. You can see that the father, Xavier, looks almost AmStaffy-he is slightly thicker and smaller than the dam, and he has the Razor's Edge blood. However, he is 60 lbs, not 115, and he has great confirmation.
If you want to have a pit bull, or are against people breeding animals for trends or in such a way that unhealthy animals are created, stay away from breeders who claim that their dogs have "massive heads or jaws" or "enormous size". Again, a pit bull should be between 35-70lbs (which is a pretty big range!). These breeders claim all sorts of bloodlines, even COLBY!!! There is no bloodline to watch for, only this: learn your breed standards, and stay away from any American Bullies you might see! I don't expect all agreement, but I believe the breeding of these so-called "American Bullies" is UNETHICAL.
The people who have taken dogs of this breed
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