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Post by johnr on Feb 1, 2012 9:23:38 GMT -5
This search turns up a ton of historic Pit Bulls, ie actual fighting dogs. As you can see, not all of them were rangy - far from it - but several were quite rangy. And in general, their outer appearance was quite various compared to modern show dogs that are bred specifically for (often dysfunctional) looks. In any breeding program, what isn't specifically selected for (or tightly genetically tied to something selected for) will tend to show significant variation. Looks didn't matter to the oldtimers. Performance did. Same tends to be true to a greater or lesser extent in ALL working breeds. "Show" breeds are a modern aberration. www.bing.com/images/search?q=Grand+Champion+Chinaman+ROM&FORM=BIFD#x0y1615 |
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Post by odnarb on Feb 1, 2012 10:30:14 GMT -5
But again, there is rangy, and there is light in bone with poor muscle tone. Even the rangy dogs of yore looked like APBTs. The dogs emerging from the ADBA show ring are becoming caricatures with high centers of gravity and no strength to back it up.
Sent with my rooted Nook Tablet using the Proboards App for Android
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Post by johnr on Feb 1, 2012 10:33:36 GMT -5
But again, there is rangy, and there is light in bone with poor muscle tone. Even the rangy dogs of yore looked like APBTs. The dogs emerging from the ADBA show ring are becoming caricatures with high centers of gravity and no strength to back it up. Sent with my rooted Nook Tablet using the Proboards App for Android Show breeding = caricature breeding |
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 1, 2012 13:18:52 GMT -5
Well, then maybe AKC should just call off their dog shows. How events where dogs are graded for how well they meet the standard. Don't give out bragging rights to anyone who isn't producing truly excellent animals. Focus more on bloodline achievement than individual, often very young dogs who, for all we know, will all be dead of cancer at age five. As long as AKC is sanctioning the shows, the judges, registering the dogs and handing out the goodies as rewards, there is NO WAY they can say they are just innocent bystanders. DQ the whole field if you need to make a point. But the AKC makes $$$$ off of these shows and the registrations of pups who are less and less like their ancestors. Yep, follow the money. IMO this is a breed club and breeder thing. Breed clubs hire the judges, judges judge what the breeders put in front of them. If breeders changed, the AKC would change along with them. |
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Post by johnr on Feb 1, 2012 13:57:16 GMT -5
Well, then maybe AKC should just call off their dog shows. How events where dogs are graded for how well they meet the standard. Don't give out bragging rights to anyone who isn't producing truly excellent animals. Focus more on bloodline achievement than individual, often very young dogs who, for all we know, will all be dead of cancer at age five. As long as AKC is sanctioning the shows, the judges, registering the dogs and handing out the goodies as rewards, there is NO WAY they can say they are just innocent bystanders. DQ the whole field if you need to make a point. But the AKC makes $$$$ off of these shows and the registrations of pups who are less and less like their ancestors. Yep, follow the money. IMO this is a breed club and breeder thing. Breed clubs hire the judges, judges judge what the breeders put in front of them. If breeders changed, the AKC would change along with them. I just cannot fathom why the AKC is getting a free pass from so many here. They sanction the shows. They hold ALL the power in just what rewards for bad breeding they merely have to WITHHOLD. They make money from these shows and from registering misbred litter after misbred litter. They aren't remotely innocent bystanders here. |
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 1, 2012 14:19:07 GMT -5
But they don't hold all the power, John. It's an illusion. It's the breeders and breed clubs. THEY are the stewards, not the AKC which is just the registering body. Could they put in place more restrictions? Of course. Many breeders would go elsewhere, start new clubs, etc. It's happened before and it will happen agaain.
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Post by bubsy on Feb 1, 2012 17:10:42 GMT -5
I guess I don't see the point in blaming the AKC so much. They are just the registering body, sure they could try and shake things up, but they've been losing $$ lately...don't think they are ever going to make any big changes.
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Post by johnr on Feb 1, 2012 17:58:18 GMT -5
But they don't hold all the power, John. It's an illusion. It's the breeders and breed clubs. THEY are the stewards, not the AKC which is just the registering body. Could they put in place more restrictions? Of course. Many breeders would go elsewhere, start new clubs, etc. It's happened before and it will happen agaain. The could de-sanction any breed club they chose. How often has that happened? |
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Post by johnr on Feb 1, 2012 18:01:41 GMT -5
I guess I don't see the point in blaming the AKC so much. They are just the registering body, sure they could try and shake things up, but they've been losing $$ lately...don't think they are ever going to make any big changes. They are the one's who sanction the shows, the breed clubs, sell the registrations, do nothing to disabuse a naive public of the gross misconception that AKC papers are some sort of gold seal of proven quality. Yep, perfectly innocent bystanders. And are they losing money or are they just not making as much as they used to? |
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 2, 2012 8:30:02 GMT -5
The UKC and even the ADBA have similar issues with unethical breeders. Look at the UKC and the American Bully issue. I just don't see it as a registry problem so much as a breeder/breed club problem.
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Post by emilys on Feb 2, 2012 19:37:48 GMT -5
most of those photos on your link John are 60s or maybe 50's at the earliest.
Not exactly "back in the day" by my way of thinking.
There are no images of pre WW2 APBTs with that rangy style that I've seen.
The breeder-breedclubs-registry-owners-judges are all mutually responsible for the problems we see in so many breeds, and they are equally at fault. And equally lay blame on someone else
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 2, 2012 21:51:51 GMT -5
what is rangy. Is Rocky rangy. HAHA I kind of like that Rangy Rocky. I constantly hear he does not look like a pit bull.   OMG look at this, this is him before he grew a chest and about 20lbs ago. LOL  and this even earlier before he grew into his legs at like a year old.  |
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 2, 2012 21:54:57 GMT -5
He is wiry that's for sure.
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Post by bubsy on Feb 3, 2012 1:39:33 GMT -5
I wouldn't really consider Rocky rangy, tho rangy does mean tall and slender...and he looks tall and lean. I would consider the pics of dogs on the previous page to be rangy.
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 3, 2012 7:38:28 GMT -5
Rocky is very tall and lean well not as lean as he used to be but he is 6 now.
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Post by catstina on Feb 3, 2012 8:43:35 GMT -5
Puppy Rocky looked so cute with his looooooooong legs!
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 3, 2012 9:05:20 GMT -5
I don't consider Rocky rangy at all. The dogs posted earlier in this thread....those are rangy.
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 3, 2012 16:39:34 GMT -5
Like tall and lean ribs showing? Is rangy? Compared to the Pit Bulls in my neighborhood Rocky is severe rangy LOL
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 6, 2012 12:26:27 GMT -5
Not tall necessarily. Those dogs on the first page are probably pretty small, not tall at all. And a rib or two showing does not equal rangy, either. Rocky's big and long. Rangy would not be a word I'd use to describe him. Here is an example of a tall, rangy dog ;D  |
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 6, 2012 13:19:18 GMT -5
LOL ^ that is like grey houndish what is that dog? Rocky looked tall and rangy like that at 1 year old. LOL he grew into himself. He went through a very akward stage between 8months and 2 yrs old. Cant even believe this is him have not looked at these in a long time  Another angle of the long legs shot  I cant get over his skinny neck. Now his neck and head are same size like 20" at least. And I cant find any awkward stage photos of him standing at that age other than this which he is crouching trying not to fall off that thing.  Not sure how old he was in this or what is going on with his ears wind must have been blowing. But since he is on that trolly thing he must be the most 2 yrs. Forgot to post photo but posted it later in this thread. Sorry. Sorry for taking up the thread with photos of Rocky but I could not resist sharing his awkward stage where everyone thought he was a whippet pit bull dalmatian pointer mix. LOL |
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I look forward to learning much here