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Post by RealPitBull on May 22, 2012 7:30:51 GMT -5
Is the move to erase the line separating Pit Bulls from other dogs in order to prevent them from being targeted by BSL going to mean that there is no such thing as "pit bull rescue", any more? Is this really a BAD thing if it helps more dogs in the end? Is our need to hold onto the notion of "breed" really just our human egos standing in the way of canine welfare? These are questions I am posing to the forum prompted by a well established, successful rescue's FB post about how their Pit Bull rescue isn't really about Pit Bulls, it's just about dogs. Let's discuss!  |
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Post by suziriot on May 22, 2012 8:12:47 GMT -5
 ;D
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Post by RealPitBull on May 22, 2012 8:14:45 GMT -5
;D What's the problem? ??? ;D   |
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Post by emilys on May 22, 2012 10:29:06 GMT -5
Is the move to erase the line separating Pit Bulls from other dogs in order to prevent them from being targeted by BSL going to mean that there is no such thing as "pit bull rescue", any more? Is this really a BAD thing if it helps more dogs in the end? Is our need to hold onto the notion of "breed" really just our human egos standing in the way of canine welfare? These are questions I am posing to the forum prompted by a well established, successful rescue's FB post about how their Pit Bull rescue isn't really about Pit Bulls, it's just about dogs. Let's discuss! yes yes no |
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Post by johnr on May 22, 2012 19:13:32 GMT -5
There is a very simple solution for people who want to rescue Pit Bulls but don't want to rescue ONLY Pit Bulls: do your Pit Bull rescue within the context of doing all breed/all mutt rescue, as I have always done. Then you can rescue non-Pitbulls without pretending that they belong to a breed that doesn't exist! Especially if you are like me and prefer logic to screaming illogic, rescuing Pit Bulls as Pit Bulls, Pit Mixes as Pit Mixes and non-Pitbulls as non-Pitbulls does the trick! AND, if you work at a medium size animal control shelter and do your rescue right there, you'll probably end up rescuing more Pit Bulls and Pit Mixes and VASTLY more non-Pitbulls than do rescues dedicated to saving non-Pitbulls as Pit Bulls, who are in turn non-Pitbulls, as there are no Pit Bulls, or whatever ...
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Post by catstina on May 22, 2012 19:28:59 GMT -5
Oof, that gave me a headache, John! But, oddly enough it made perfect sense and I agree with you and Emily. I already had two Pit Bull rants today, so I don't feel like getting into this too much tonight!
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Post by emilys on May 22, 2012 20:11:15 GMT -5
There is a very simple solution for people who want to rescue Pit Bulls but don't want to rescue ONLY Pit Bulls: do your Pit Bull rescue within the context of doing all breed/all mutt rescue, as I have always done. Then you can rescue non-Pitbulls without pretending that they belong to a breed that doesn't exist! Especially if you are like me and prefer logic to screaming illogic, rescuing Pit Bulls as Pit Bulls, Pit Mixes as Pit Mixes and non-Pitbulls as non-Pitbulls does the trick! AND, if you work at a medium size animal control shelter and do your rescue right there, you'll probably end up rescuing more Pit Bulls and Pit Mixes and VASTLY more non-Pitbulls than do rescues dedicated to saving non-Pitbulls as Pit Bulls, who are in turn non-Pitbulls, as there are no Pit Bulls, or whatever ... too much logic, JohnR! .. what people want is to get praise/karma for being a pit bull rescuer (and post Vick,it's become the cool thing to do).. but not the actual work of being a breed specific rescue which requires, you know, WORK to understand the breed's uniqueness and willingness to stand up and defend that uniqueness. Instead what we get is the former breed advocates leaving the breed advocacy role, in droves.. the creepy turbochargers and their "if you talk about breed specific characteristics, you're in league with PETA and dogsbite.org.... and the swelled headed queens who are just so much better than everyone else |
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Post by suziriot on May 22, 2012 20:58:23 GMT -5
There is a very simple solution for people who want to rescue Pit Bulls but don't want to rescue ONLY Pit Bulls: do your Pit Bull rescue within the context of doing all breed/all mutt rescue, as I have always done. Then you can rescue non-Pitbulls without pretending that they belong to a breed that doesn't exist! Especially if you are like me and prefer logic to screaming illogic, rescuing Pit Bulls as Pit Bulls, Pit Mixes as Pit Mixes and non-Pitbulls as non-Pitbulls does the trick! AND, if you work at a medium size animal control shelter and do your rescue right there, you'll probably end up rescuing more Pit Bulls and Pit Mixes and VASTLY more non-Pitbulls than do rescues dedicated to saving non-Pitbulls as Pit Bulls, who are in turn non-Pitbulls, as there are no Pit Bulls, or whatever ... I would say that this is a good description of what Mutts-n-Stuff/Phoenix Pack does. |
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Post by johnr on May 23, 2012 7:27:05 GMT -5
And I would also add that at the shelters I have worked at, the Pit Bulls and Pit Mixes that we have adopted out form a large multiple of the Pit Bulls and PIt Mixes (and everything else, for that matter) pulled by rescue and that a large majority of Pit Bulls and Pit Mixes pulled by rescue have been pulled by all breed/all mutt rescue. Breed specific Pit Bull rescue has existed more in theory than in practice for a long time, like, forever. Yes, there have always been a few around doing serious Pit Bull rescue in serious numbers, but only a few. And rescue in general tries to hog much more credit than they deserve. Rescuers are mostly hobbyists and there is no more reason to expect hobbyists to outperform the pros in this field than there is in any other. My wife and I have adopted or fostered lots and lots of dogs over the years and I've continued to do this on a somewhat smaller but far from negligible scale since she's been gone. But if you add up all the dogs we have adopted or fostered in the past two decades, they add up to about the month's total of what gets adopted out of BCAS. The main action remains where it's always been and always will be. And yes, Emily, lots of people are in all sorts of rescue to a large extent for the easy acclaim, not to do real work producing results on a scale that matters.
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Post by RealPitBull on May 23, 2012 7:32:10 GMT -5
It's always been my opinion that the breed rescue's main job is to educate on their breed. Because as John's pointed out, especially in a breed like this where there are just SO MANY the actual number of dogs a Pit Bull rescue can take in and place is going to be minimal. So rescues should work hard at eduating, promoting responsible caretaking, helping dogs stay in homes, shelter support, and making sure people know what they are getting into before they bring a Pit Bull home. Most "pit bull" rescues nowadays are just saying "get one, they are awesome and just dogs like any other dogs! yay! now let's all hold hands and sing around the campfire!"
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mayhemkb
Member
Otter as a pup
Posts: 87
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Post by mayhemkb on May 23, 2012 10:24:11 GMT -5
It's always been my opinion that the breed rescue's main job is to educate on their breed. Because as John's pointed out, especially in a breed like this where there are just SO MANY the actual number of dogs a Pit Bull rescue can take in and place is going to be minimal. So rescues should work hard at eduating, promoting responsible caretaking, helping dogs stay in homes, shelter support, and making sure people know what they are getting into before they bring a Pit Bull home. Most "pit bull" rescues nowadays are just saying "get one, they are awesome and just dogs like any other dogs! yay! now let's all hold hands and sing around the campfire!" This entirely! To many all breed rescues are doing this these days. I also see this from the fly by night hipsters who are doing pit bull specific breed rescue because it is trendy. IMHO while I don't see all breed rescue going away, I do see all breed rescue as often being the most fly by night organizations. I know there are many good all breed rescues so please don't think I am bashing on them all here. In my area all breed rescues tend to be non permenant entities that import dogs in from other areas ignoring the animals in need in the local area. They very rarely take surrenders or pull from our shelters. They tend to be around for about 2-5 years then splinter and become 2-3 different entities because the board couldn't agree on something. They do very little education and are of the mentality that a dog is a dog is a dog and the right dog is any one, especially the dog they have. The most reputable rescues and the ones that never disolve into several or vaporize into thin air are breed specific rescues. They have the most successful placements. They maintain a presence in the community and in educational circles. They also endorse and work with other rescues and pull from local shelters, take local surrenders and pull dogs in from around the country and send dogs out to other affiliates when they are at their limit number/resource wise. They stand heads and shoulders above 90% of the all breed rescues around here. Certainly hope they stay around. Even outside of pittie rescue there is a need to hold onto the notion of "breed" because of the specialized nature of most breeds these days. I see it that many (not all) all breed rescues are to broad in their assumptions of dogs and are lax about placing them with the right family/person, while focusing on the wrong things in doing so. (i.e. enforcing a fencing rule, or a rule about being home all day with the dog rather than doing a good evaluation of the dog being adopted out.) Kristy |
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Post by johnr on May 23, 2012 10:40:08 GMT -5
It's always been my opinion that the breed rescue's main job is to educate on their breed. Because as John's pointed out, especially in a breed like this where there are just SO MANY the actual number of dogs a Pit Bull rescue can take in and place is going to be minimal. So rescues should work hard at eduating, promoting responsible caretaking, helping dogs stay in homes, shelter support, and making sure people know what they are getting into before they bring a Pit Bull home. Most "pit bull" rescues nowadays are just saying "get one, they are awesome and just dogs like any other dogs! yay! now let's all hold hands and sing around the campfire!" Right, which is not only not helpful but harmful, potentially gravely so. |
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Post by marc on May 23, 2012 16:43:36 GMT -5
It's always been my opinion that the breed rescue's main job is to educate on their breed. Because as John's pointed out, especially in a breed like this where there are just SO MANY the actual number of dogs a Pit Bull rescue can take in and place is going to be minimal. So rescues should work hard at eduating, promoting responsible caretaking, helping dogs stay in homes, shelter support, and making sure people know what they are getting into before they bring a Pit Bull home. Most "pit bull" rescues nowadays are just saying "get one, they are awesome and just dogs like any other dogs! yay! now let's all hold hands and sing around the campfire!" I would think i'd term the above a breed advocate and a group dedicated to this a breed advocacy group... as opposed to a rescue. The word "rescue" to me, a layperson, connotes someone that goes in, finds dogs, and takes them in, then keeps them or goes on to find them homes. Of course i'm neither of what i describe above...i'm just a dog lover, that has interest in a certain breed/type, and wanted to help a couple dogs with homes(since there are soooo many) as opposed to buying puppies. |
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Post by johnr on May 23, 2012 20:25:13 GMT -5
Meanwhile, I am getting royally sick and tired of the way one such breed boundary blurrer keeps posting facebook musings that draw the absolute butt stupidest of fan mail replies and this person NEVER EVER calls BS on these people, either letting the nonsense (which in several cases I know she knows is nonsense) stand unrebutted or leaving it to others to do the rebutting while she sits idly by. ANd yes, I did PM my disgruntlement over this to her. Nothing has changed. Wow, what a surprise.
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Post by emilys on May 23, 2012 21:32:53 GMT -5
Meanwhile, I am getting royally sick and tired of the way one such breed boundary blurrer keeps posting facebook musings that draw the absolute butt stupidest of fan mail replies and this person NEVER EVER calls BS on these people, either letting the nonsense (which in several cases I know she knows is nonsense) stand unrebutted or leaving it to others to do the rebutting while she sits idly by. ANd yes, I did PM my disgruntlement over this to her. Nothing has changed. Wow, what a surprise. I think she's mentally ill, seriously. If not, she's just a freak. |
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Post by michele5611 on May 24, 2012 8:24:52 GMT -5
Since we are going with the notion that no dog can be reasonably identified by looks/behavior then I am all for the incorporating quotes around all breeds. How about “lab” type dog or “Chihuahua” type dog.  |
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Post by RealPitBull on May 24, 2012 8:26:47 GMT -5
Can we even be sure they are dogs? "Dog"-type dog?
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Post by johnr on May 24, 2012 8:28:13 GMT -5
Can we even be sure they are dogs? "Dog"-type dog? Dog-type animal? |
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Post by michele5611 on May 24, 2012 8:29:56 GMT -5
^Now we are on to something people!!!!
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Post by RealPitBull on May 24, 2012 8:31:56 GMT -5
Can we even be sure they are dogs? "Dog"-type dog? Dog-type animal? There ya go. |
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I look forward to learning much here