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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 27, 2013 13:46:35 GMT -5
Anyone on their page? They were bashing HSUS which I disagree with but can understand. However, in addition to hating on HSUS they seem to be opposed to fight bust dog rescue. Just an fyi....
~Mary
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Post by suziriot on Nov 27, 2013 13:51:35 GMT -5
I thought the post on HSUS was way overboard and not really factual. There's plenty to dislike about HSUS, and no doubt they continue to do some pretty shady stuff. But any criticism should be factual and reasonable. It seemed more than a bit hyperbolic.
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 27, 2013 13:57:03 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with you, Suzi. I posted a few times on that thread. I'm really turned off by that group or whatever they are. And at first I was really liking them. A few other things sent alarm bells off but all you have to do is read their page to see the problems.
~Mary
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Post by melonie on Nov 27, 2013 19:40:29 GMT -5
I may still "Like" their page, but I think I may have left it. Didn't really like the overall tone of the page.
Sent from my XT881 using proboards
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Post by michele5611 on Nov 27, 2013 19:47:45 GMT -5
Wow the comment about how many dogs had to die because we took Sedona. I guess fight bust dogs aren't as worthy of rescue or help as other dogs.
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Post by suziriot on Nov 27, 2013 20:26:16 GMT -5
Ugh, I think I just read the post you did Michele. Still debating whether to comment or just unlike the page. :/
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Post by michele5611 on Nov 27, 2013 20:43:26 GMT -5
It's like blaming the victims in this case the fight bust dogs because they were rescued by HSUS. I think we all have bones to pick with HSUS but that doesn't help the likes of Dharma or Sedona or the countless others who would have never made their way into loving homes.
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Post by michele5611 on Nov 27, 2013 21:03:12 GMT -5
Good question Suzi. Hoping they will clarify their position so that we have a better understanding of their feelings regarding fight bust dogs.
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 27, 2013 21:35:39 GMT -5
I've asked twice and they won't just come out and say, yes of course we support rescue of bust dogs. She just made another post bitching about the space they take up in shelters and the evil HSUS.
~Mary
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Post by michele5611 on Nov 27, 2013 21:58:54 GMT -5
She did reply to Suzi that she is just opposed to how the way HSUS handles it. "They have deep enough pockets that local shelters need not be impacted at all."
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Post by suziriot on Nov 27, 2013 22:10:34 GMT -5
Yeah, just read her response. Not sure I'm buying it. As Mary pointed out, her other statements sure seem anti bust dogs, not just anti HSUS. And I hate to be in the position of defending HSUS, but the reality is that most busts wouldn't happen without them or ASPCA being involved in some way. They have the resources and the national platform to make things happen. I'd much rather have them at least supporting the adoption of bust dogs than their old policy of automatic death sentences.
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 27, 2013 22:23:00 GMT -5
Absutely what Suzi said. ^ If they support the rescue of bust dogs, they have a weird way of showing it. They just sound really resentful. That Ginny chick made a disparaging comment about the rescue of Sedona causing the death of numerous other dogs and Rachel "liked" it.
You can criticize the way big multi million dollar orgs do business while still making it very clear you support the actual overall rescue efforts. There are multiple comments on that page talking about how bust dogs take a away from other dogs in the same jurisdiction. Also, reposting of old articles and posts ranting about how HSUS still kills bust dogs. I feel like Rachel is only saying things she thinks people want to hear and trying to get approval, and doesn't really know what she's talking about, vs just having a differing opinion.
~Mary
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Post by catstina on Nov 27, 2013 23:36:01 GMT -5
I'm actually a fellow admin of the page and have never ONCE seen Rachele be anti-bust dog. I don't understand why anyone would think that. Being against the HSUS and the way they handle fight busts doesn't make one against the dogs. I don't agree with all of her opinions and positions, but I know that she cares about the dogs.
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Post by suziriot on Nov 28, 2013 0:40:59 GMT -5
Honestly Cat, looking back through the posts and comments I think it's pretty easy to come to the conclusion that PBAM is saying bust dogs are a waste of resources. I don't think that's what they ARE saying ultimately, but without some clarification that was my original conclusion. She and another commenter just got pretty snarky with me, which is what always happens on stupid Facebook. But I take her - and more importantly YOUR, because I "know" you - word that they are not anti bust dog. Some of the commenters definitely are though. I really am just confused by some of the mixed messages.
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Post by michele5611 on Nov 28, 2013 8:12:08 GMT -5
Thanks for input Cat. I knew you were one of the admins and was hoping u could shed some light on their stance! My two for what it's worth. Since it is so hard to gauge diction and tone on Facebook I tend to look at not only what is being said but also omission and what is not being said. From what I read the hatred for HSUS far outweighed any good they did and their contempt for them had trickled down to to fight bust dogs. I couldn't help but feel that they resented the bust dogs and not just from a financial standpoint but as one person put it taking up space and resources not being able to be housed together. Also,the comment to Mary how many other dogs had to die so you could take your bust dog really rubbed me the wrong way. I would have understood if they said we hate HSUS but happy they are helping those dogs. I never really saw anyone acknowledge that at the end of the day it is about helping the dogs. It is certainly possible I missed one of those comments. The most I saw was not happy withthe way they handle it but no mention of the dogs being better off. In any event as Suzi said I too, am confused by some if the mixed messages but glad that Cat set the record straight about the fight bust dogs.
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Post by catstina on Nov 28, 2013 9:44:26 GMT -5
I can't find the comments you are referring to. The only comment that is referenced here that I actually saw was the one where Ginny had said that the HSUS dumps the bust dogs into shelters with less resources and still takes all the credit for the bust. I took that to mean that if the HSUS is going to put bust dogs into local shelters, those shelters should get some of the credit and some of the resources. Where are the comments directed towards Mary and CC?
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 28, 2013 11:12:35 GMT -5
There is just so much twisting of fact in multiple threads over there. I find it counterproductive and maybe even hurtful to the dogs. Like posting a 6 year old article about HSUS policy and claiming this: "There's good ole HSUS doing their best to eradicate our dogs again, all in the name of "saving" them...."
Then calling HSUS liars because some people mistakenly believe that HSUS has shelters or is associated with their local humane society.
Comparing HSUS to Charles Manson (REALLY??) and that one of the "problems" with HSUS is that they are anti hunting (I realize everyone has their own beliefs and personal beliefs don't have to align with the mission of an org but I have no idea what the mission statement of PBAM is and when the founder brings personal beliefs (hunting is good) into the mix, that might as well be the org itself supporting those ideals).
When someone asked if ASPCA was "as bad as" HSUS, Rachel said YES and to "look up the Oreo case" (does PBAM believe in warehousing biters?)
Here are the comments that made me think that these people do not approve of saving bust dogs because they take away from other local dogs that AREN'T bust dogs:
Rachele: "...the HSUS dumped fight bust dogs and puppies recently (not the first time). They are taking time from working with adoptable animals to work with them and make their time there (possibly years) a little more bearable."
Ginny said this and Rachele "liked" the comment: "I wonder how many local, very adoptable dogs lost their life to make room for the OH200 and for you to have your rescue." (Referring to RPB's taking in Sedona.)
It is very easy to simply say, "Of course we support the rescue of these bust dogs, we support that effort, we just wish HSUS would provide finances to some of the shelters and rescues who end up with these dogs." How hard is that? Rachele danced around that question and got snippy. She is obviously really opposed to HSUS and ASPCA and that's fine, but it's like, ok what are YOU doing to help these dogs? Just sitting there bitching that the orgs aren't giving $$ your "friends" at the local open admin shelter whose jurisdiction is to care for cruelty case dogs in their locale, anyway?
Suzi was very polite and said she was confused about PBAM's position, and I said the same thing, and Rachele keeps going on and on about how she doesn't think she's sent any mixed messages. If I, Suzi, Michele are confused, OBVIOUSLY she IS sending mixed messages. DUH.
Sorry Cat, I hope I'm not being offensive, I just was really taken aback by this whole exchange.
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Post by suziriot on Nov 28, 2013 11:28:26 GMT -5
Yes, the reference to Oreo is a red flag to me.
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Post by michele5611 on Nov 28, 2013 11:54:03 GMT -5
The other thing that left me scratching my head was when someone said house the dogs or kill them all. When someone (not Rachel) said that was horrible the person responded with well it happens. Rachel liked that post. Cat I am also not trying to be combative or offensive just trying to let you know why I was left feeling confuzzled. Of course I know how you feel and what you stand for.
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Post by catstina on Nov 28, 2013 15:37:47 GMT -5
She's can be stubborn and I don't think she's going to post anything clarifying PBAM's position. I do know that she supports the rescue of these dogs, but she doesn't seem to think the clarification is necessary. PBAM also supports euthing dogs that bite humans, so I don't really get the ASPCA Oreo comment.
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