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Post by andreacassel on Jan 20, 2009 9:35:59 GMT -5
I am trying to get all of my "ducks" in a row before Lily comes home. I have already purchased a puppy crate, a cozy bed, toys, etc. I want to get everyone's thoughts and opinions on how old she needs to be before she starts her puppy class. Also, can you recommend any basic training that I will need to do with her from day 1 at home?? Thanks and I look forward to reading your replies!!!!
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 20, 2009 10:52:49 GMT -5
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Post by andreacassel on Jan 20, 2009 16:23:16 GMT -5
Thank you!! I printed off the socialization lists from both of the sites you recommended - the airplanes will be easy as we are right under the flight line for Barksdale AFB..
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 20, 2009 17:18:04 GMT -5
Just remember proper socialization involves positive experiences...exposure + goodies (cooked shredded chicken, upbeat verbal reinforcements, praise, encouragement, woo hoo! a plane (or whatever the puppy is witnessing/interacting with) is key).
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 20, 2009 17:22:02 GMT -5
Andrea~ What part of Tx are you in?
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Post by tank on Jan 20, 2009 17:29:09 GMT -5
Another suggestion I would have is wait till your pup has has all 3 rounds of the puppy shots and the rabies shot before beginning the class.
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Post by andreacassel on Jan 20, 2009 17:57:04 GMT -5
I am actually in Princeton, LA - a suberb of Shreveport/Bossier. The breeder I am purchasing Lily from is in Waskom, TX - a 30 minute drive or so from home. However, if you know someone in Texas that can help with training - I can make the drive (lol - I drove to Michigan to pick up a rescue bird - no drive is to long if it is for the critters...)
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 20, 2009 18:36:45 GMT -5
I wouldn't wait until the third set of shots to begin socialization or enrolling in a puppy class. Not to dimiss the previous poster but the chance of disease contraction as opposed to the negative effects from lack of proper socialization trump. There is a window of opportunity here and socialization takes precedence. The window for proper early socialization closes around 12 weeks. You just need to know how to properly and safely protect your puppy, the dangers aren't as extreme as some may think. I am more concerned about missed socialization opportunities than chances of acquiring a disease. For some reason I can't load and copy the URL to the ASVAB site for their position statement about this but check the website for more info: www.ASVAB.org
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Post by tank on Jan 20, 2009 23:56:39 GMT -5
I wouldn't wait until the third set of shots to begin socialization or enrolling in a puppy class. Not to dimiss the previous poster but the chance of disease contraction as opposed to the negative effects from lack of proper socialization trump. There is a window of opportunity here and socialization takes precedence. The window for proper early socialization closes around 12 weeks. You just need to know how to properly and safely protect your puppy, the dangers aren't as extreme as some may think. I am more concerned about missed socialization opportunities than chances of acquiring a disease. For some reason I can't load and copy the URL to the ASVAB site for their position statement about this but check the website for more info: www.ASVAB.orgI disagree, I was told by my dogs vet, another vet that is a friend of a friend as well as 2 trainers to wait until she had her final set of shots to take a puppy class. Any reputable trainer won't accept you into the class until that is done. No, socialization shouldn't and doesn't have to start until then, but puppy class should. I am assuming the puppy class is not in someones home but in a public place where a lot of other dogs and puppies have come in, some who may have come from puppy mills etc who can spread fatal disease to your dog if you are not careful. IMO and others opinion who I respect, you should begin to socialize the pup right away by bringing her everywhere you can think of, except for on the floor at a pet store or dog facility, for safety reasons.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 21, 2009 8:02:15 GMT -5
I disagree, I was told by my dogs vet, another vet that is a friend of a friend as well as 2 trainers to wait until she had her final set of shots to take a puppy class. Any reputable trainer won't accept you into the class until that is done. No, socialization shouldn't and doesn't have to start until then, but puppy class should. I am assuming the puppy class is not in someones home but in a public place where a lot of other dogs and puppies have come in, some who may have come from puppy mills etc who can spread fatal disease to your dog if you are not careful. IMO and others opinion who I respect, you should begin to socialize the pup right away by bringing her everywhere you can think of, except for on the floor at a pet store or dog facility, for safety reasons. Hi! I absolutely agree about public places, but I absolutely do not know of anyone who is qualified and educated which will suggest a vaxed, 10 week old puppy is too young for puppy class. Practically every single trainer I respect (nationally/abroad respected, highly qualified trainers and veterinary behaviorists) all will strongly suggest early and heavy socialization. The key is to do it properly and safely. Obviously puppy owners shouldn't be dragging their 8 week old puppies to dog parks or allow them on the floor in environments where strange dogs frequent but that in itself does not limit socialization opps. Allowing appropriate, vaccinated adult dogs for play dates at your home, other slightly older vaxed puppies, children (with disinfected hands and no shoes), adults, etc are great, safe ways to begin socializing. Taking your puppy to friends and relatives homes where you can guarantee no parvo has been for at least 5-7 years...take her for car rides, have bank tellers give her cookies, take her through fast food drive throughs, she gets cookies, etc. Lots and lots of veterinarians suggest or flat out direct new puppy owners to keep their puppy home until 2 weeks after the 3rd set of shots. What is wrong with that is that there is no further discussion about socializing during this time. Owners feel they must overprotect the puppy and that *can* be damaging to development and create fear issues. Not across the board, lots of puppies grow up just fine but owners should be proactive in helping their puppy grow into a stable adult. A personal experience with the importance of early socialization: We brought Cajun home at age 8 weeks. He was a Katrina rescue, born after the hurricane near New Orleans. I immediately began heavy socialization, he went everywhere with me, covered the puppy socialization checklists three times over by the time he was 4 months old and then some and continued heavy socialization. He was in puppy socialization class at 10 weeks old with an extremely qualified certified trainer and there were no issues. I kept in touch with his rescue group and followed his sisters (Caj was the only boy). Cajun's twin was adopted at age 9 weeks and she has no issues to this day, very social and stable. We offered to foster Jasmine when the puppies were 5 months old and she was incredibly fearful, even at that young age. She was damaged goods, basically. Jasmine growled at my husband for 2 days as we worked on conditioning her and eventually she accepted him and basically claimed him. However, she is incredibly stressed outside the home and car. I have spent the past 2 years working on counter conditioning but there have been little improvements. Two of the other sisters stayed with the rescue for a year, adopted out and both were returned and adopted out three more times, possibly more. When I raised my concerns with the group, I was dismissed, as according to them, these girls only needed a loving home. The end of my communication with this group was when the last girl was adopted out, within a week she bit the resident 2 year old in the face and the child's father, a police officer, took her outside and shot her. The reason these puppies developed into fearful and unstable dogs is because they spent the entire time as puppies in their foster's backyard, enclosed with a wooden privacy fence. The only outings they experienced was to the vet. They were not even allowed to socialize with the foster mom's resident adult dogs of varying breeds and sizes. Cajun and the sister adopted earliest have no issues. Cajun is a social butterfly, meets no stranger, adores adults and kids alike, noises don't phase him, strange environments he can handle, he's bombproof. Had I not gotten him as young, I would safely assume he'd be riddled with issues as well all because of lack of proper (or any) socialization. My story is extreme, I understand that, but it clearly shows how important it is to get these babies out and show them the world and build their confidence and trust with humans. It can be done safely, but they definitely shouldn't be treated as fragile and placed in a bubble for these crucial early weeks. www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/oct08/081001c.asp (American Veterinary Medical Association's position on early socialization and vaccinations) tinyurl.com/5wvtd2 (Better link to AVSAB's position statement) www.paws4training.com/content/SocializationLetter-1.pdfwww.walabs.com/Puppy%20Socialization.doc
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Post by andreacassel on Jan 21, 2009 10:56:03 GMT -5
Thank you!!
You took in one of the Katrina victims?? I worked that hurricane here locally - cleaning and caring for the animals that were brought in - from 6pm until 2am, every night, for 5 weeks straight. Those were some of the most rewarding nights of my life! I am glad to know that at least some of those guys made it to good homes!!
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 21, 2009 11:01:24 GMT -5
We didn't take in just one, we adopted two. The owner of Cajun & Jasmine's mom left her in the care of a makeshift shelter in Houma while they evacuated. They had intentionally bred her and the father of the litter was left behind in NO and drowned. The owners came back and picked up the mom and the largest female puppy once they were weaned. I'm sure they'll be breeding them both again. I am fortunate in the fact that I have pictures of their mom and of the puppies from age 2 days. Cajun was the runt! He's a healthy, proportioned 50lbs now.
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Post by maryellen on Jan 21, 2009 11:15:09 GMT -5
i have to agree with Bama here too.. get that pup into class once you get her home... most vets are from old school, where they want the pups to stay home until the window of socialization has closed because the vaccines are not done yet, which is a HUGE mistake.. hell i took rufus at 3 months old with only his first set of puppy shots to classes, and took him to all petstores, stores, everywhere when i got him at 2 months old, to make sure he was well socialized... now ruby, i got her at 3 1/2 months old, and she wasnt socialized before i got her, so i have been having a time getting her socialized since she missed that important window... ruby only had puppy shots that her breeder gave her and hasnt had a vaccine since except rabies, but then again i dont vaccinate after the vaccines are given at puppyhood but thats a different topic altogether..
you MUST get that pup socialized properly when you get her.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 21, 2009 11:26:31 GMT -5
My two get vaccines every 3 years and I wish Alabama would get with it and allow rabies every 3 years...or longer. Research has shown most vaccines last for well longer than one year. Rabies, I believe has been proven effective for over 5 years, some say up to 7 years. I truly believe today's pets are overvaccinated. Annual check ups are necessary, though. But as ME said, that's an entirely different discussion.
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Post by andreacassel on Jan 21, 2009 11:41:53 GMT -5
Lily will be 7 weeks when I pick her up from the breeder. I don't think the socialization will be a problem - I plan on getting her out and about daily to meet people and see new things. The training club that I found locally requires that the puppy be totally finished with all of their shots - so I may have to keep looking for another training facility.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 21, 2009 11:46:36 GMT -5
Hmm....as hard as it would be on you I would ask the breeder to keep her for another week, if possible. Especially if there are other puppies that will be there, too and the environment is a good one.
The puppies within a litter teach each other valuable lessons such as bite inhibition and it would be ideal that they stay together until at least 8 weeks old, preferably a tad longer.
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Post by andreacassel on Jan 21, 2009 12:03:07 GMT -5
I will talk to her. I know that almost all of the other pups are sold (have deposits on them) and I think that the pick-up date for the rest of them is the same as mine 02-21. Thanks for your honesty on that - I know that when we had kittens last year we kept them until they were 10 weeks old (no matter how grouchy the "soon to be owners" got)...
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Post by valliesong on Jan 21, 2009 12:37:47 GMT -5
I would suggest 10 weeks for pups, too. 8 at the very minimum.
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Post by RealPitBull on Jan 29, 2009 14:23:57 GMT -5
My general recommendation for pups to go home is 8.5 - 9 weeks. Definitely no earlier than 8 weeks.
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Post by bubsy on Jan 29, 2009 22:02:18 GMT -5
I agree w/everyone else. 8 weeks is the earliest I'd get a pup...I think 9-10 weeks is even better.
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