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Post by tank on Mar 11, 2009 16:24:36 GMT -5
I am so aggravated right now. My roommate had her mom and her mom's friend come over for a visit a little while ago. Her mom has been over before. Lucy knows her and usually barks, then gets excited quickly after that once she sees who it is. So, my roommate told her mom's friend that we had a dog here. She said she was a dog person. So, they come over. Lucy goes outside to greet them and the lady is SCARED SHITLESS of Lucy. She winces and cowers and said she "doesn't feel comfortable." Meanwhile Lucy is wondering why this person is freaking out and becomes scared of the frantic lady. I bring Lucy inside, calm her down and sit in the living room on the couch with her giving her treats for being quiet and good. My roommate's mom comes in and starts telling me to basically lock Lucy in the other room and "hold her down" while this lady comes in to look at my roommate's room. I told her no, and that would be scary for her and make her more afraid of the lady. She then responded by saying that she has been bitten by dogs before and she doesn't want to get bitten. BTW, Lucy is 45 lbs and a puppy if anyone didn't notice already. What I don't get is why someone who is "very scared of dogs" and "has been bitten by numerous dogs before" (gee... I wonder why...) come to a house where it has been stated that a dog lives there and will be there. The thing that REALLY gets me is that if I was told before hand, I would have taken her for a walk, or settled her down in my room, not brought her out to greet her. So this lady has pushed Lucy back in her training once again, because she is an irresponsible person.
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Post by crystalbbr on Mar 11, 2009 16:51:20 GMT -5
Why in the world did the lady say she was a dog person and then go into the "very scared of dogs" b/c she "has been bitten by numerous dogs before" - that doesn't make sense to me
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Post by tank on Mar 11, 2009 17:03:40 GMT -5
I have no idea. That is why I am so pissed about it.
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Post by mcgregor on Mar 12, 2009 7:13:29 GMT -5
I can understand this woman getting bitten "numberous times "...it is her own fault...... dogs sense fear and the woman was overreacting.... she probably made all those dogs nervous... If she was so fearful she should not have come and visited the household knowing there was a dog inside.... the dog had a right to be in the room with its owner,he lives there not her, not right to put the dog in another room tied up....People who are afraid of dogs make me nervous as well as they do the dogs
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Post by tank on Mar 12, 2009 10:40:17 GMT -5
mcgregor that is exactly how I feel about it. She is nervous, so the dogs around her are nervous. Lucy is very sensitive to people's emotions, and has been since we got her. It is probably why she is such a fearful dog sometimes. I'm sorry about the rant, I just needed to get it off my chest and maybe have people agree or disagree with me. I don't understand why people can't be honest with themselves. I am 100% sure she knew there was going to be a rambunctious dog in the house she was visiting.
Lucy had a bad day after that experience, it put her on edge. She had 2 accidents in the house (it has been a long time since that happened) and wouldn't listen to me when I told her to go lay down in her bed, even with treat rewards. She even screeched at me one of the times I told her to go to her bed. I can't completely blame her behavior problems on other people, but every time an incident happens she get's worse and it takes weeks for her to become her normal self again. I would really like for her not to be exposed to people like this while I am trying to rehabilitate her from her fear of nervous people, but when people lie and come over anyway, it makes it impossible.
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Post by andreacassel on Mar 12, 2009 10:50:40 GMT -5
poor Lucy. maybe take lucy to do one of her favorite things (go for walk, ride in the care, etc.) to get her normal mind set back..
i tell people before they come over - i have animals and they were here first - you want to come over you need to treat my animals as if they were my children.
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Post by maryellen on Mar 13, 2009 9:32:34 GMT -5
put lucy in a crate when people come over, you are not helping her by allowing her to bark at people when they come over. you are reinforcing her bad behavior of barking by allowing it, if she is crated when people come over you will have more control over her and allow her to come out when she is calm and quiet on a leash.. you cant fix fear issues, only manage them . by understanding her fears you can work with her better.. get the book Help For Your fearful dog by nicole wilde and start reading it, the book is VERY good and will help you work with lucy on her fear issues...
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Post by emilys on Mar 13, 2009 9:52:43 GMT -5
really, have a little more sympathy. Maybe the woman thought she had gotten over her fear, but on being confronted with a LARGE (to her) rambunctious puppy, had flashbacks to being bitten. It won't kill Lucy to learn she can't be part of every scene. MaryEllen's suggestions make sense to me.
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Post by DiamondTiger on Mar 13, 2009 10:12:59 GMT -5
ME, that's great advice. It's actually what we do with Karma whenever someone new comes to visit whether the person is nervous about her or not. It's not about the people (to me) as much as it is about my dog and making HER experience with new people as positive as I possibly can. See, when Karma was younger, we lived next door to a bar. Some idiots that hung out there insisted on teasing her and threw bottles and other items over the fence at her. We were out with her but they didn't care... and this was enough to cause Karma to be leery of new people. So now, whenever someone new comes to visit, I either put Karma in her crate and allow her the time to relax and use her senses to realize that these people mean no harm, or I'll leash her to me and have her lay at my feet. Either way, I tell people to ignore her and I don't allow any interaction between them and Karma for the first (at least) 10 minutes after they come in the door. When I do finally allow interactions, I ask them to sit down and hand them treats. I "coach" them to offer the treats but to allow Karma to come to them on HER terms. Generally this takes her all of about 10 seconds and once she gets the first nibble from them, they have a new BFF! (Ask Alicia how long it took her to gain Karma's undivided attention and undying love. LOL!) Now we have had a few people come to visit who are absolutely adamant about Karma not being anywhere near them (crated or not). This has been family, and I respect that. I am very clear and upfront with everyone who does come to visit us that we have a dog and if they're visiting from out of town they are more than welcome to stay with us, as long as they understand that our dog is part of our family and she will be treated kindly and as such. We will NOT crate her and keep her segregated for days... but I will honor their requests to keep her out of the room if they are only coming for a short (couple of hours) visit. I won't force anyone to like my dog or spend time with her... however, I won't let them force me to treat my dog like she's a monster - because she is not.
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Post by tank on Mar 13, 2009 10:55:07 GMT -5
put lucy in a crate when people come over, you are not helping her by allowing her to bark at people when they come over. you are reinforcing her bad behavior of barking by allowing it, if she is crated when people come over you will have more control over her and allow her to come out when she is calm and quiet on a leash.. you cant fix fear issues, only manage them . by understanding her fears you can work with her better.. get the book Help For Your fearful dog by nicole wilde and start reading it, the book is VERY good and will help you work with lucy on her fear issues... I totally disagree. That is what I would have done if I knew that she was afraid of dogs, or even not a dog person. By making Lucy hide when people come over I am setting her up to fail. She will hear them and not be able to see what is going on around her. I don't own a crate and never will again. My last dog hurt himself badly in one while being fine with it for 3 years then someone banging on the door while he was in it. I came home to a bloody dog. Last night people came over and she was fine. No barking, she sat to greet them etc... Those people weren't nervous around dogs. That is how she usually is when people come over unless they are nervous untrustworthy people. I just want to add that I appreciate your advice for when she is going to be in a fearful situation, but I can't hide my dog from everything she is fearful of, and without her continuing to have positive experiences with (good, non nervous) people coming over and being fine with it, she will only get more afraid of everyone who walks in my door, friend or foe.
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Post by tank on Mar 13, 2009 11:00:57 GMT -5
Now we have had a few people come to visit who are absolutely adamant about Karma not being anywhere near them (crated or not). This has been family, and I respect that. I am very clear and upfront with everyone who does come to visit us that we have a dog and if they're visiting from out of town they are more than welcome to stay with us, as long as they understand that our dog is part of our family and she will be treated kindly and as such. We will NOT crate her and keep her segregated for days... but I will honor their requests to keep her out of the room if they are only coming for a short (couple of hours) visit. I won't force anyone to like my dog or spend time with her... however, I won't let them force me to treat my dog like she's a monster - because she is not. This is what I agree with in your post. This is why I am so mad. If she had a problem with meeting the dog, she should have told me before coming over. I was not going to FORCE anyone to like my dog. I don't give a care who likes my dog or not, that's their choice. But, my dog lives here, she doesn't. If she has a problem with dogs she can just not come over. I don't appreciate being demanded to "roll over my dog" or "hold her down." That is a frightening thing to do to a dog. My roommates mom (not the one who was afraid) has told me before that I need to train my dog like Ceaser does or I am making a big mistake. You can't just come into a house and expect all the house rules to change.
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Post by maryellen on Mar 13, 2009 11:50:55 GMT -5
you are not making lucy hide, you are allowing her to check out folks while in the safety of a crate and once she is calm let her out.. also, a barking dog whether 45 lbs or not will scare someone who has been bitten, and when the woman first said something you should have taken lucy away in a happy tone to lucy and put her away for a few minutes.. you dont have to change the house rules, however, you cant set your dog up to fail. i know its hard,but with a dog that has fear issues you need to work with the dog first, not the people that come over, and a dog that cant recover when a fearful person comes over needs work, as it shouldnt set her off like you stated it did where she peed on the floor etc...
i have lived with a fearful dog for 8 YEARS.. i have to manager her around people, and i know what triggers her fears.. i also have a new dog that has fear issues as well, and the book by nicole wilde really helps ALOT.. its worth it for you to get the book to see where you can get help with lucy...
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Post by tank on Mar 13, 2009 14:21:15 GMT -5
I think you misunderstood me. I did take her in. I sat her on the couch with me, 3 rooms away from the lady. She was calm and not fearful at all. Then my roommates mom came in and started telling me what to do, trying her damnedest to make me feel uncomfortable in my own house. I then took Lucy into my room because I couldn't deal with the woman any longer.
Also, she peed on the floor 6 hours after that happened. It put her in a bad place. I don't know maybe my reaction of being treated like that put her in a bad place, not the way the lady reacted around her. She was having a really good day before that happened. She was nice to people and dogs when we took a walk, she played outside fetching sticks and was tired out probably for the day if that hadn't happened.
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 13, 2009 14:24:47 GMT -5
I sympathize with you.....really nothing worse than someone who doesn't know better trying to tell you what to do with your own dog in your own home! Grrrrrrf.
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Post by andreacassel on Mar 13, 2009 14:34:21 GMT -5
She may well have been feeding off of your stress level - which means that you need to learn how to just let it go when someones upsets you over Lucy - I know that is hard to do, but it will help both of you in the long run.
My thoughts would be to offer her as many positive experiences as possible with good positive people. If you have a dog training club nearby, join - those people have a blast!! Many times my club offers - day outs - where we go to the riverfront and walk the dogs, then hang out in the patio of the starbucks with the dogs, etc. These are the kind of people that you really need to get Lucy involved with - the ones that love their dogs and want all dogs (and their people) to have good experiences.
Anyways - that is just my .02 on the subject. Hope it helps some.
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Post by tank on Mar 13, 2009 14:43:10 GMT -5
I know I need to let things go. I have had real bad anxiety issues lately and small things make me stressed out. I'm sure that isn't helping any situations with Lucy.
I have been trying to get together a dog hiking group but no one ever is interested. They just tell me to go to the dog park to meet dog people. No thanks! I really do just need to proactively try to put together situations that are positive and healthy for my dog, and will probably help my stress levels with negative people too. We had people over yesterday with 2 dogs (one was a apbt mix) and she had a really good time, and it helped me get over the crap that I have to deal with negative people.
I realized something scary yesterday. Lucy is exactly like me socially.
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 13, 2009 14:55:26 GMT -5
With shy and sensitive dogs like Lucy, it really is all about management and doing your best to control the environment. Just speaking in general terms, if you know a new person is coming to visit, best to do it on leash and/or have the shy dog in a crate initially - with greetings coming after everyone is settled in, and on the terms of the dog (Kat and ME had some really good advice above). Then setting up specific training scenarios that mimic real-life situations. I hope you can get that hiking group together, I think it'll be very good for Lucy (and you)!
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Post by andreacassel on Mar 13, 2009 14:56:45 GMT -5
LOL - scary isn't it - a dog that is exactly like its human that is exactly like its dog....
Where are you located - I will see if I can find any dog clubs around there that are similar to the 2 that are here.
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Post by maryellen on Mar 13, 2009 14:57:02 GMT -5
oh ok, i didnt know you took her in, sorry, i totally misunderstood... too bad you didnt live up here, i would gladly bring rufus and ruby for walks.. i dont have anyone up here either in my area to get together with, i have to drive over an hour to do that
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Post by tank on Mar 13, 2009 15:16:45 GMT -5
I live in Asheville, NC. The only groups I have seen are breed specific meet ups. I work in a dog wash, you'd think it would be easier to find people!
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