Pit Bulls & Dog Parks - NOT perfect together!

[RealPitBull]

I don't like dog parks. It's not even a breed thing...I just don't like them for dogs in general. I don't know, something about a bunch of strangers getting together and letting their dogs off leash to romp - not knowing if the other dogs are healthy, safe, and well-suited playmates for your pup. It really scares me! Perhaps because my dogs have been attacked by errant dogs in the past - a realllllly scary thing I'd wish on no dog owner - I'm extra sensitive to the idea of putting my dog in possible harm's way. But when there are so many other safe, creative ways to get your dog the exercise and socialization he needs, I can't justify the dog park visit.

Then there is the whole other can of worms that needs to be opened when you consider the breed we own is the Pit Bull. Here are some articles to check out about Pit Bulls & dog parks, and why you should, in general, avoid them:

From realpitbull.com:

Pit Bulls & Dog Parks




You say your Pit Bull loves other dogs? That he doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body, and you don't want to deny him of playtime with his buddies at the dog park? Please read the following and than reconsider your view of Pit Bulls and dog parks.

Selectively bred for combat with other dogs, the Pit Bull is genetically predisposed to dog-aggression. The breed was created to be the ultimate fighting machine. Although early socialization and training can make a big difference, it is impossible to erase genetics, and owners must never forget what their dogs were originally bred to do. Not all Pit Bulls will start a fight, but almost none will back down from one. And regardless of who started the fight, you can bet the Pit Bull will get the blame. Because of this, it is imperative that owners always keep their dogs under control and on leash when out in public. It's also important to be watchful when out with your Pit Bull and aware of other dogs that may be loose in the area. Your well-behaved, on leash Pit Bull may be jumped by another (loose) dog who does not quite know what he is getting in to. It's wise to stay away from areas in which off leash dogs are known to frolic.

By their very nature, dog parks are hazardous. A bunch of loose dogs of all ages, breeds, and sexes, romping together merrily may seem like a good time, but dogs will be dogs, and unfortunately, such places are conducive to aggressive outbreaks. Many times, an owner may not even be aware of their animal's proclivity towards dog-aggression until it is placed in the often-times stressful environment of the park. And because of the wide variety of animals usually present--each with individual personalities and temperaments--the possibility of two dogs clashing is high. Placing your dog in a situation in which he may have to defend himself from a challenging, pushy, or outright aggressive dog, just isn't fair. And when we're talking about Pit Bulls, a fight in a dog park could mean more than just some hurt feelings.

Because of the public's misperception of the Pit Bull, any member of the breed involved in a fight will automatically be the bad guy--deservedly or not. Even if your dog doesn't start the fight, it's not likely that he'll back down, and he probably will be the one to finish it. When small dogs are involved, even a fight that lasts only a few seconds could be deadly. And you can bet that sympathy for the "killer Pit Bull" in such a situation will be nill. When breed-specific legislation is knocking on the proverbial front door in towns all across America, every bad incident involving the Pit Bull serves as more fuel. Our breed is in jeopardy, and as their guardians, it's up to us to make sure we keep them out of trouble. Ask yourself: are dog parks really worth the risk? Are you willing to place your dog in a compromising position?

Many people feel guilty about depriving their dogs of playtime with other dogs at parks. The truth of the matter is, Pit Bulls just aren't a breed that is gregarious with other dogs. People are by far their number one priority! A dog's perceived need for canine girlfriends or boyfriends is more a human trait projected onto the animal than any real necessity. Our dogs are well-served by lots of human socialization, and early *controlled* exposure to other animals (at shows, obedience classes, puppy k, on-leash parks, trips to the pet store/veterinary office, etc)--this sort of socializing is much more appropriate and beneficial than romps in dog parks. So keep that dog safe, happy, healthy--and ON LEASH!

But don't take my word for it.....here's what to other very reputable organizations have to say:

www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm

www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html

blog.johannthedog.com/2008/01/one-more-reason-why-dog-parks-just.html
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A Day At The Park

He is just like other dogs I would always say; He loves to go to the dog park to play every day

Everyone loves him there, so it's ok; My dog won't fight--he wasn't raised that way

But then one day, right before dark, A troubled young man came into the park

He had by his side the biggest dog I'd ever seen, And unfortunately for us, both were quite mean

We asked very nicely if they would just go; The dog answered with a snarl and the man with a harsh "NO!"

Well his dog was a terror, threatening to all; Then he started a fight with a Lab over a ball

They fought pretty hard and the man would not intervene; Then here comes my dog and pushes right in between

He grabbed that big dog and thrashed him around; And with one quick jerk threw him down on the ground

The Lab was able to escape; I heard everyone cheer; But my dog was now in a frenzy and would not let me near

When he finally let go, what I saw stopped my heart; That big mean dog had been torn apart

The authorities were called, the big dog was now dead; But they didn't take the big dog; they took my dog instead

We all tried to explain that my dog saved the day; But because of his breed he was taken away

You see my dog was a Pitbull and they don't get any breaks; One small incident is all that it takes

A dog had died; And though he hadn't started the fight, My dog was held responsible for what happened that night

He was deemed a danger to all and sentenced to death; And I hold him now as he takes his last breath

It's my fault that my dog is being killed today; Please listen for a moment to what I am going to say

Everyone warned me about his potential to fight; I said it won't happen, I am raising him right

And now my dog is paying the ultimate price; Because I was stubborn and wouldn't take the advice

He only did what he was bred to do; Learn from our story; don't let it happen to you.

This poignant poem is reprinted here with the generous permission of its author, Sue Gauthier.

[valliesong]

I send the link to your page on dogparks, as well as the BadRap and PBRC one, to everyone I can.

[RealPitBull]

Thanks Val, it's important info!

[bullymommy25]

The "aggressive breed" thing is waaay out of control. In fact, the very dog fighters that gave the pit bull that reputation also gave them something else: a high level of submission to humans. This is why the Pit Bull and it's cousins are NOT good guard dogs, and why their natural tendancy is to greet everyone like a long lost buddy. The thing that separates these dogs, at least as far as dog fights (both deliberate and accidental) go, is that the pit bull has been bred with a very high pain threshold and intense courage and tenacity. This breeding came from pre-dog fighting days (YES, PRE-DOG FIGHTING, THEY WERE NOT ORIGINALLY FIGHTERS), when the pit bull was called the Bull Dog (before the time of Spuds Mackenzie). The pit bull was the working companion of the farmer and butcher, and helped the human catch his bulls by grabbing their noses and wrangling the bull to the ground so the farmer could tie, slaughter, sedate, or give aid to the bull. THESE are the traits that attracted the dog fighters (pit fighters) to this breed! To make dogs fight requires months of training, which is more like abuse than training. A healthy, happy pit bull is NOT aggressive, but is a joy to be around. True, some prefer to be "only dogs", but that goes for ANY breed. When a pit bull dislikes other dogs, we immediatly jump to breed, when it is just personality! Many-I would say most-pit bull types are completely happy in play groups with, working with, and sharing the home with other dogs. As far as humans go, consider this: Even in the sad heyday of pit fighting, the dogs were often not only gladiators for the amusement of their masters, but family pets. They would often return home to play with the children of the same man who pit them against another dog! I think that most people who own pit bulls will say the same thing: they would always adopt or purchase another, they trust their pittie and love her with all their heart!

This being said, it's what OTHERS think about our breed, combined with the characteristics that attracted the pit fighters, that is the true danger! Many times, dog fights break out at dog parks. Or perhaps fights is too strong a word; I'll say altercations. Invariably, one dog gets bitten. But no matter what, when the authorities come, YOUR dog will be blamed. In the worst case, consider this: even if he does not start the fight, YOUR dog has what it takes to finish the fight. A dog that was created to wrangle bulls and whose instincts were sharped in the pit is not a fair competitor for another breed, with TRAGIC results. Both dogs could die, the attacker by your dog and your dog by legally demanded euthanasia.
In the less dramatic, more likely scenario, your dog's socialization can be harmed. My personal experience: We took our puppy, after getting ALL her shots, to the dog park. "It's sooo great for their socialization!" the vet had raved. Our Stella played with the other dogs, big and small, with an open heart! She ran with the pack, and it was beautiful. THEN, a woman brought her small-medium JT mix into the bunch. When Stella ran to greet the newbie, he flung himself on her in a fit of teeth and scratches! No one seemed to move, but I ran to my dog. Since the fight was ALREADY in progress, and fearing for my dog's safety, I acted on pure instinct to protect my baby. I dropped onto the offensive JT mix, pushed my dog away (to my husband, who arrived on my heels), and I held the stranger's dog to the ground. By the time his owner decided to get involved, I was cut up, and my dog was safe in my husband's arms.
I did not call the police, because my dog was not injured at all and I don't wish to be responsible for another dog's "bad record". The woman left immediatly, and after she did, imagine my surprise when another dog owner came to tell me that this dog was KNOWN FOR ATTACKING PUPPIES! The woman still brought him! I wish I had called someone at that point!
To this day, my Stella is not the same. She is still vigorous and playful, but she adopts a very submissive posture when meeting new dogs. She still gets nervous, until several meetings with a new "friend". My point is this: THERE IS NO ONE CONTROLLING THE GATE AT DOG PARKS. ANY DOG CAN COME, AND YOU CAN'T COUNT ON OTHER OWNERS TO ACT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE DOGS!

So you see, as a pit bull fan AND a historian, I detest the "they were made for fighting and are aggressive" byline, but the message is still the same. Dog parks are NOT the place for responsible owners who love their dogs. And due to the misconceptions and the tragedies surrounding our breed of choice, dog parks are DOUBLY DANGEROUS for pit bull owners!
A better bet? Arrainging a play group in your area with friends you know and trust, or at least new friends whom you may be selective about allowing into the group. Our dogs NEED to be with other dogs sometimes, and this is a much safer way of giving them that release. Walking groups are just as good, and even a good obedience training group can double as socializing in a controlled way.
Let's not think that our dogs can't handle the dog park, but let us be aware that the dog park is not equipped to handle our dogs! Good luck!

[RealPitBull]

Actually, the "bulldog" you are referring to was a very similar, but seperate breed, and the foundation from which the APBT sprang. Despite it being non-PC, the fact is that the APBT WAS bred as a fighting dog; the breed was solidified and founded by dog fighters, although IMO they were always used in other ways as well. The breed does have a strong tendency towards dog aggression. That's just the facts!

Certain authors have pushed for a revisionist view of APBT history in an effort to help improve the breed's image, but IMO it does no good to skew truth to push an agenda. I have done a tremendous amount of studying on the breed for a number of years and although I think the APBT is the closest thing we've got to the original bulldog, I do no believe that they breed existed as we know it today BEFORE dog fighting became its formal function. If you do some pedigree research you'll come up with some pretty interesting things!

[pringrl]

Alas, it is true... our breed was ALWAYS bred and fought to breed the characteristics desired in APBTs. I reference Richard Stratton here. When I first researched the breed, I thought, "Oh what a shame that these beautiful animals were illegally fought and bred to be aggressive" but what I foud is that although the illegal dogfighting is really what has brought the negative to light, our dogs ALL come from lines that were bred and "pit-fought" to determine their gameness. I read Richard Strattons books and didn't want to believe what I was reading, but as I read on, I realized that these animals were bred and fought to bring out the DESIRABLE characteristics that we love about our pups so much today.

When the dogs were "pit fought" years ago, there was no "fight till the death" and no kicking and abusing these dogs. In fact, owners would take their dogs out of the pit before they got hurt. This "test" was simply to see if the dog had the quality of "gameness" which simply means, will the dog "give his all." One of the things I find most fascinating about this breed, is that they will work and work and work as long as you tell them to. They do this to make you happy. If you take a pit on a walk, they are not goign to lay down in the middle and say I've had enough... they will walk until you are done. If you play fetch with your pit, they will bring that ball back every time until you say done. That is part of the "gameness" that was bred into these dogs, and that gameness is what breeders back in the Stratton and Colby days looked for in the pit.

So, in summary, pits were always "fighting dogs"... however, originally this fighting was used positively and responsibly. It is when the illegal dog fight rings started, mostly underground, with betting and dousing dogs with chemicals and kicking the dogs, etc... that things turned down the wrong path.

Sorry if I am rambling a bit, but I think it is important for us all as pit owners to understand the breed AND their history. That history is what got us the wonderful FAMILY dogs we have today. That history is what makes the APBT such a wonderful companion.

[emilys]

pringrl said:

Alas, it is true... our breed was ALWAYS bred and fought to breed the characteristics desired in APBTs. I reference Richard Stratton here. When I first researched the breed, I thought, "Oh what a shame that these beautiful animals were illegally fought and bred to be aggressive" but what I foud is that although the illegal dogfighting is really what has brought the negative to light, our dogs ALL come from lines that were bred and "pit-fought" to determine their gameness. I read Richard Strattons books and didn't want to believe what I was reading, but as I read on, I realized that these animals were bred and fought to bring out the DESIRABLE characteristics that we love about our pups so much today.

When the dogs were "pit fought" years ago, there was no "fight till the death" and no kicking and abusing these dogs. In fact, owners would take their dogs out of the pit before they got hurt. ....

You know, this is simply not true.
All you have to do is read some of the (horrific) accounts of pit matches to learn that dogs sometimes DID fight until dead, or nearly so. That's the whole point of the concept of "game".. a dog that would fight to the death. The dogmen said "the only dead game dog is a dead dog" They admired and wanted such dogs; if they couldn't quite stop a match soon enough, that dog went down in history as something special.

The dogfight apologists like Stratton like to glide over what dogfighting was really like and romanticize the dogmen as some kind of almost PETA-esque doglovers. Absurd of course. They were just men, engaging in an activity that LONG ago was sort-of socially acceptable. Some loved their dogs, and for others, the dogs were just means to an end (money/fame/bragging rights).

They didn't kill all human-aggressive dogs either. Another myth.

[RealPitBull]

I have some old fight reports from magazines and reprints and the dogs most certainly got super duper hurt, at the very least. If you want the real scoop, gotta get it from the horse's mouth, where no agenda is present. You get a truer picture of what happened from the words of people who were there/part of it, back in the day when we didn't have the same biases surrounding the topic that we do now.

I still recommend the Stratton books but hesitantly because they REALLY sugarcoat dog fighting.

[pettoprincess88]

I have never been to a dog park but i always wanted to. Thanks for posting this up, or I would have been making a big mistake as well. I wouldnt want my dobie getting blamed, my lab mix getting hurt as we fights back or my chi mix getting fataly hurt.
thank you

[tahla9999]

I like dog parks. Its cool when the dog parks have certain rules to them. Some dog parks separate the size of dogs. One little dog side, one big dog side. Others have rules like your dog must be neutered, or have its vaccinations. I use to go with my non pit bull and it was fun. We never got attacked, but then again there weren't a lot of dogs that came. Its usually regulars so the dogs knew each other. The best part about it is seeing the different kinds of breeds. I meet this dalmatian that went around saying hi to everyone that enters the park. It was sooo cute!!

[Courtney]

We frequent dog parks with our pack, and have found it to be a positive influence.

When our 2 yr old Pit Bull X was a pup we socialized her at various dog parks almost daily and she is an extremely happy, friendly, non-aggressive dog. I do realize that she is only 2 years old and her temperment could change when she reaches maturity, but not once has she ever shown any hints of dog-aggression or human-aggression.

We keep a very close eye on our dogs while at dog parks, and are extremely cautious about the other dogs/owners that are around. If we even sense there could be a problem, our dogs go back on their leashes immediately.

My question is, if you don't take your dogs to a dog park, where do you take them to let them run, swim, etc? Where I live the only places you can legally let your dogs off leash are at designated dog parks, which thankfully are plentiful, and many are on the ocean so they can swim (thumbs up for safe exercise!).

[valliesong]

I don't exercise my dogs offleash, as I don't believe it's safe. I use long lines - leashes about 25 feet long. When I lived in the city, occasionally we would exercise the dogs at the tennis courts or skatepark, but I have found that training, focused play (tug, springpole, fetch, etc.), and leash walking work just as well. Aiden's favorite game currently is to be sent away into the next room, and then called back repeatedly. You can also use a treadmill.

Long lines can be used in any situation you would have your dog offlead, such as swimming, hiking, or fetching. The bonus is that you are less likely to be blamed for any altercation because YOUR dog is under your control.

Another alternative is to utilize dogparks early in the morning or late at night when no one else is there, or to organize playdates with dogs you and your dog know, with owners who won't sue you if the dogs get into a scrap.

I would never take any of my dogs, pit or otherwise, to a dogpark. Fights can break out in a split second, and a dog can be seriously injured or killed in a matter of moments, before they can be separated. The vast majority of dog owners also don't know how to break up a dog fight, and there is a big risk that they will either cause further injury to the dogs in pulling them apart, or will get bitten themselves.

I think people tend to anthropromorphize their dogs. You can not expect human behavior from dogs. You can't expect them to "shake it off" when another dog offends them. And dogs can also very easily misinterpret another dog's body language. That exuberant lab may very well ignore your GSD's obvious signals to back off, and then suddenly it's too late.

Public perception is VERY important with our breed right now, with new municipalities banning them every day. The public cannot differentiate between dog aggression and human aggression. If your pit bull or mix is even slightly involved in a dogpark incident, there is a high likelihood it will make the news and cause a public uproar - often resulting in BSL.

Two years of age is peak time for a pit bull or mix to "turn on" to dog aggression. For your dog's safety and the safety of all other pit bulls in your area (and worldwide) PLEASE reconsider offleash dogparks as a safe place to play.

[RealPitBull]

What Val said! The media cannot wait to pounce on ANY Pit Bull related dog attack. Do the breed a favor and keep your DOGS ON LEASH AND OUT OF DOG PARKS!!!!!

[Courtney]

I'm torn on this issue. I understand your concern regarding the reputation of the breed, and the possibility of any dog being hurt at a dog park.

My problem is that I can't imagine keeping my dogs on a leash all the time! How can you let your dogs run on a leash? I know I can't keep up with mine! Same goes for swimming...25 feet of leash is not enough for my swimmer...she can swim for an hour straight without stopping.

Besides, if they're on a 25 foot leash aren't they too far away to prevent a fight anyway? Or am I missing something?



We do tend to frequent the parks at slow times (today there was 1 other dog in the whole park).

Am I truly naive or is it just different in my part of the world? I've never seen a fight at a park, and we're at various parks all the time.

[RealPitBull]

courtney said:

I'm torn on this issue. I understand your concern regarding the reputation of the breed, and the possibility of any dog being hurt at a dog park.

My problem is that I can't imagine keeping my dogs on a leash all the time! How can you let your dogs run on a leash? I know I can't keep up with mine! Same goes for swimming...25 feet of leash is not enough for my swimmer...she can swim for an hour straight without stopping.

Besides, if they're on a 25 foot leash aren't they too far away to prevent a fight anyway? Or am I missing something?



We do tend to frequent the parks at slow times (today there was 1 other dog in the whole park).

Am I truly naive or is it just different in my part of the world? I've never seen a fight at a park, and we're at various parks all the time.

The resources listed in the starting post of this thread have suggestions for exercising. Many, MANY people adequately exercise their dogs without subjecting them to the dangers of dog parks. It's a fallacy that dogs "need" dog parks to be happy/healthy/well-exercised. Leashes are a dog's safety-line, and I suggest people keep their dogs ON them unless under very strict, carefully monitored conditions (i.e. at dog trials, training classes, in enclosed fields, in small private play groups etc).

My own dog goes for walks, hikes in the woods, swims in the bay during the summer months, all on his leash. And no, I do not have a yard.

I keep my dog away from dogs, period, because he has severe dog issues. But for dogs who are tolerant and seek out interaction with other dogs, there are positive, safe ways to socialize that do not involve the free-for-all environment of the dog park.

As far as your neck of the woods, I don't know anything about your dog park, but there are good ones and bad ones. Some dog parks are carefully monitored by dog-savvy people who weed out dogs that would cause trouble. I'd say these are few and far between, though. The average dog park is a public area that anyone can visit with any dog - perhaps after one bad incident a person would be shunned/banned, but it only takes one bad incident to cause significant damage.

I hope you read all the material presented above in the links; maybe an angle that you haven't thought of yet will pop out at you and change your perspective.

Lots of people have learned the hard way that dog parks are not safe. I do my best to educate to prevent others from having to experience the same.

[bullymommy25]

don't get me wrong... my dog is also game bred, i know that there was fighting in the past. But I'll tell you, I have encountered many pit bulls who are not dog aggressive, and I'm talking old-line purebred dogs. NOT saying that there isn't a tendancy to win fights, i realize these dogs' ancestors were bred to be gladiators... i'm just not sure of the love to fight in 100% of these dogs. I don't want to commit to saying that all of these dogs are bad with other dogs, because I've encountered a good number who were quite happy to meet and play with other dogs (present company included!). I don't want to make any generalizations one way or another, that's dangerous. Not being pollyana-ish about this, but I'm just letting everyone know that I've seen another side here.
I stress that I excersize 100% caution with my dog and any dog, I don't allow my dog in dog parks (we create play groups, allow socialization on walks, etc...). I think a natural approach is best, and probably a lot of us can say that our dogs enjoy the company of their bonded packmates.
I know my dog is stronger than another breed. I know she's no quitter, she's courageous, she has a very high tolerance to pain. What I haven't seen, in her and a whole lot of purebreds, is an outright desire to fight other dogs or a dislike for their company. I protect her cuz I know she can hurt another dog, herself, and even in self-defense do some damage that society would not forgive her for.
Is this something other than aggression? Why have I seen so many pit bulls who are okay to meet and enjoy the company of other dogs? I'm curious to get a pro's opinion here!!

[RealPitBull]

I never said, nor do I ever say EVERY PIT BULL IS DOG AGGRESSIVE. Each dog is different, and even those that do show tendencies will have different dog-aggression levels. But I do talk breed generalities. Owners need to NOT be lulled into a false sense of security as many a seemingly innocent social interaction has suddenly turned messy, very messy and very quick. NO one who owns these dogs should be surprised by something like that. No one should be caught off guard and ill-prepared. You MUST know your breed.

As far as "bonded" pack mates - this aren't a dog-social breed. They were not meant to work or live in packs. Do they enjoy the company of other dogs? Sure! Do some get along well in the company of other dogs? Sure! I just cannot say it enough. KNOW YOUR BREED. And you will never end up caught off guard, dealing with massive vet bills or the death of a dog due to an accidental fight.

A little story....I had two dogs that grew up together. They were BEST friends, slept curled up together EVERY night. The second of the two was brought in as a 10 wk old pup and grew up alongside his big brother. If ever anyone wanted to call two dogs "best buds", it should have been these two. Even though I never left them alone together (too much of a worrywort, and had done too much breed study to believe I could), I "thought" they "got along".

After 5 years of living together, one day there was a small scruffle - they were in the dog run, and a female walked by. Ok, no biggie. It was their first fight in 5 years, they had never shown any aggression towards each other before that. But I took a mental note, decided to never let them in the yard/kennel loose together, and moved on. It was the ONE and ONLY time in 5 years I had EVER seen any aggression between these two, and it was barely a scuffle.

Several years later, BY ACCIDENT, the two found themselves in the yard alone together, but I didn't know it. I was about to hop in the shower when I heard a weird shuffling sound, like dirt and rocks getting kicked around. I ran outside. The dog who had been raised from puppyhood had his brother by the throat and was cutting off his air circulation. He would have been dead in mere minutes - maybe by the time I got out of the shower - had I not heard that very faint noise (these dogs don't tend to make whines/growls/barks when fighting). The dog that had the throat hold? Not a gamebred dog, not even a scatterbred APBT. A showbred AmStaff. This was only the second time and it was the last time I ever saw aggression between these two dogs.

I recount this story here to drive a message home - you MUST understand the history of these dogs. You must take precautions, and just because you "think" your dogs get along, doesn't mean they always will in all situations. Caution, careful monitoring, and usage of brainpower is a MUST!!!

[valliesong]

admin said:

I never said, nor do I ever say EVERY PIT BULL IS DOG AGGRESSIVE. Each dog is different, and even those that do show tendencies will have different dog-aggression levels. But I do talk breed generalities. Owners need to NOT be lulled into a false sense of security as many a seemingly innocent social interaction has suddenly turned messy, very messy and very quick. NO one who owns these dogs should be surprised by something like that. No one should be caught off guard and ill-prepared. You MUST know your breed.

As far as "bonded" pack mates - this aren't a dog-social breed. They were not meant to work or live in packs. Do they enjoy the company of other dogs? Sure! Do some get along well in the company of other dogs? Sure! I just cannot say it enough. KNOW YOUR BREED. And you will never end up caught off guard, dealing with massive vet bills or the death of a dog due to an accidental fight.

A little story....I had two dogs that grew up together. They were BEST friends, slept curled up together EVERY night. The second of the two was brought in as a 10 wk old pup and grew up alongside his big brother. If ever anyone wanted to call two dogs "best buds", it should have been these two. Even though I never left them alone together (too much of a worrywort, and had done too much breed study to believe I could), I "thought" they "got along".

After 5 years of living together, one day there was a small scruffle - they were in the dog run, and a female walked by. Ok, no biggie. It was their first fight in 5 years, they had never shown any aggression towards each other before that. But I took a mental note, decided to never let them in the yard/kennel loose together, and moved on. It was the ONE and ONLY time in 5 years I had EVER seen any aggression between these two, and it was barely a scuffle.

Several years later, BY ACCIDENT, the two found themselves in the yard alone together, but I didn't know it. I was about to hop in the shower when I heard a weird shuffling sound, like dirt and rocks getting kicked around. I ran outside. The dog who had been raised from puppyhood had his brother by the throat and was cutting off his air circulation. He would have been dead in mere minutes - maybe by the time I got out of the shower - had I not heard that very faint noise (these dogs don't tend to make whines/growls/barks when fighting). The dog that had the throat hold? Not a gamebred dog, not even a scatterbred APBT. A showbred AmStaff. This was only the second time and it was the last time I ever saw aggression between these two dogs.

I recount this story here to drive a message home - you MUST understand the history of these dogs. You must take precautions, and just because you "think" your dogs get along, doesn't mean they always will in all situations. Caution, careful monitoring, and usage of brainpower is a MUST!!!

This is almost the exact same experience I had with my own dogs. Roscoe is some type of pit bull (looks like an oversized Staffy Bull) and Aiden is a pit bull/shar pei mix. (Both adopted from shelters.) They got along perfectly for years, cuddling and playing together all the time. Then when Aiden was 4 and Roscoe was 10, they got into a first, and then a second fight. Both fights had serious injuries, including a surgery on Roscoe to repair a torn blood vessel.

Now the two dogs have nasty scars and are permenantly separated on a crate-and-rotate schedule. Thankfully we both continue to get along with my foxhound, a pack-bred dog who must be with another dog or suffers severe separation anxiety. Another know-your-breed fact: foxhounds do best in groups. They love other dogs but are relatively independent of humans.

[aziz]

I thought that a dog could be taken away to be euthanised only if he had hurt a human. I know 2 people who's dog on the leash got attacked by a dog off the leash in the park. The owner of the attacking dog was not around until way after its dog had latched on the other dog. When the owner of the dog on the leash contacted police, aspca and animal control to complain they gave him a question instead of an answer :"did you got hurt yourself?-non- then dog fight- this is what dogs do- sorry we won't take a complain.

[valliesong]

Must be different where you live, because in many areas a dog can be declared legally dangerous for attacking a human OR a domestic animal.

The euthanasia of an individual dog is almost a moot point when talking about pit bulls anyway, because the media and politicians are so quick to jump to BSL. In fact, here in my home state of PA, we are facing the possible removal of a law prohibiting BSL because some idiot allowed their pit bull to roam and the dog attacked a beagle.

This is why so many of us are adamant about leash use and avoiding offleash dog parks. All it takes is for one incident to be reported to the media or a politician, and BSL can be knocking at your door. These laws don't always include grandfather clauses, so you are looking at the death of hundreds or thousands of dogs. How many is Denver up to now?