Chloe
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 433
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Post by Chloe on May 19, 2010 15:33:54 GMT -5
So, over the weekend we went to a friends house to stay the night. (I haven't seen her since high school and we lost touch for yrs) We brought both our pitties and our friends have 2 Jack Russells and a Rottie. They told us their JR's r DA so they would set up a dog run for our dogs to use when we wanted them outside. We also brought our crate so our dogs could be crated while inside our friends house. They told us they would keep their dogs separate from ours at all times. We get there in the evening (it was dark) and the 1st thing that happens when we open the truck door is the female JR jumps up and starts biting Smash (our 1 1/2 yr old male APBT) in the face! I was able to get the JR out of the way so I could close the door and she disappeared. Then my husband opens his door to get out and he no sooner gets outta the truck when the male JR jumps into the truck and starts acting all crazy too! We get him out of our truck and leave our dogs in it until the JRs are put away.
Later that night, (the JR's are inside but the Rottie was out w/our dogs) we are all talkin outside and the Rottie is walking by me and Smash comes to see what he's doin and the Rottie attacks him, they start fighting, luckily we were able to break it up before it turned into anything major. So now we know all 3 of their dogs have issues so we keep them separate from all of them. The next flippin morning, my husband and friends husband are outside w/our 2 dogs and someone lets the female JR out!!! WTF!! She doesn't even hesitate and flies right into Smash, barking, biting, growling, full blown attack mode! So this is just great! He ends up w/her in his mouth and wont let her go. My husband laid on him and put him in a headlock so he couldn't shake her and eventually they got him to let her go. She ended up w/a puncture wound to the right side of her chest that needed 1 staple but no serious injuries, thank GOD!
Our friends weren't upset w/us or our dog at all, they said it was their dogs fault, that she's always the instigator but I was still hysterical! They weren't to concerned w/the events at all. In fact, later that day, their male JR attacked the male Rottie and they all just stood there watching and laughing! (Needless to say we will never go over there again!)
This was the 1st time Smash has ever been in a fight. Smash is not DA, he's never ever started a fight but he's obviously ready to finish one, which I know is typical of the breed.
My question/concern is, what do we do now? Whats the likely hood that these two incidents will change his tolerance for other dogs? It's even been suggested that every time we take him out he should be muzzled but he didnt start the fight, he was attacked and defended himself! Am I right or am I way off? Someone even said we should put him down, which we aren't going to do! But still, he wasn't the aggressor!!!
I was also wondering, if dog A attacks dog B but dog B is a pittie and ends up hurting dog A, can dog A's owners sue dog B's owners even though it was dog A who attacked?
This is so frustrating!
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Post by suziriot on May 19, 2010 15:44:36 GMT -5
Chloe, this is just awful! I am so sorry... poor Smash. Some dogs are severely attacked and have no resulting issues with other dogs. Some do. I suggest you are very careful about having closely supervised positive socialization with other dogs, which is of course what we all should do all the time anyway.  Keep an eye out for his reactivity and for any signs of fear and anxiety when he sees or is approached by unknown dogs. Ugh, what a horrible experience!  |
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Post by adoptapitbull on May 19, 2010 15:46:12 GMT -5
I would never muzzle my dog when out on a walk. All that does is feed into the aggressive stereotype. If an unleashed dog comes up to you and Smash is muzzled, then he's defenseless. With that said, I'd also never let those dogs see Smash again. Your friends are in the wrong, and the poor dogs had to pay the price. The person who said you should put him down is absolutely crazy. So if you get attacked by a mugger and you fight back, you should go to jail? No way! I'd definitely not take Smash (or any Pit) for a playdate at another dog, or several dogs' house again. Limit interactions with other males, especially uncontrolled situations like at your friends' house.
Unfortunately, the owner of an injured dog can sue even if their dog started it. Most people believe their dogs are innocent no matter what and will sue anyway. Go up against a Pit, and you know who will be blamed immediately. Hopefully Smash will continue to be fine with your other dog. Just avoid playdates with other dogs for now, and it should all be fine. He may be DA later in life even if this hadn't happened. If he does become DA, then you'll have to consider crate and rotate or a similar situation.
Poor Smash, he gets in trouble for what the other dogs did!
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Post by suziriot on May 19, 2010 15:54:28 GMT -5
If he truly has shown no signs of DA, then I don't think you need to eliminate socialization with other dogs. Otis was attacked twice by another male, and defended himself both times. But he has never shown any DA before or since. You want to follow the guidelines for doing proper introductions - on leash, NOT face to face, approach in an arc from the side, plenty of room between them, then walk the dogs parallel with the humans in between, and end it immediately if you see any fear or aggression from either dog at any point. If everything is fine, then you can let them actually touch and sniff and eventually play. That's how we do temperament tests, and it's a safe way to evaluate whether the dogs will get along. There's probably a discussion on dog-dog intros here on the forum.
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Post by adoptapitbull on May 19, 2010 16:01:59 GMT -5
Right, those are nice and controlled situations. Bringing new dogs to resident dogs' homes can often be a disaster waiting to happen.
Chloe, is there a safe area (not a dog park!) that you can take your dogs to so they can play with some friendly dogs you and the dogs know?
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Post by sugar on May 19, 2010 16:04:12 GMT -5
What awful people to point at laugh when their own dogs (JRT & Rottie fight). I mean the day that rottie says 'enough' will be a very sad (and bloody) day indeed.
Poor Smash! I hope he is ok! Unfortunately it is true about dog fights involving pits. Even if your dog didnt start anything, the law is already pretty baised against pits. Hopefully your friend doesn't sue, and I would never ever bring any dogs near their property again because they obviously have no control over their own animals.
So sorry you had to deal with this.
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Post by loverocksalot on May 19, 2010 16:11:10 GMT -5
Poor Smash. Rocky would have had a tough time. He does not play with bitey dogs. He would try to hide after the first time and not have had a good night. He does not seem to understand why dogs tell him off.
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Post by AmyJo27 on May 19, 2010 19:48:22 GMT -5
Poor Smash!!! I think it depends on the dog. Boomer was fine with other dogs...LOVED them. Then one day he got into a fight with my parents' Retriever mix and that was all it took. From that day on, I could no longer trust him around other dogs. Females he was decent with but males=fight. Even a dog he grew up with, he attacked. He would have never have done it before the fight. I would just watch Smash next time he is around other dogs...Monitor him closely to avoid a fight. He will let you know. |
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Chloe
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 433
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Post by Chloe on May 19, 2010 19:54:35 GMT -5
Thanks everybody for all the advice and support! I really appreciate it! I dont know of any places that are enclosed that I could take them to play but I'm definitely going to look into that! And no need to worry, we dont do dog parks!  I had the same concern about the muzzle too, if he gets attacked again by a bigger dog then w/a muzzle on he wont be able to defend himself. I guess I just needed to hear it from another pittie owner. ;D Yes, when they (the dogs) were outside together we were all there the 1st time and my husband and friends husband were there the 2nd time thankfully!! And just to let everyone know, this was never set up to be a play date for the dogs, only for the humans. They told us from the start that their dogs (the JR's anyway) would always be completely seprate from our dogs all the time. So much for that! The guy is a complete idiot too!! He thinks because he has JR's that he knows everything there is to know about dogs/terriers. Smash likes to make eye contact w/us, he watchs us a lot, he doesnt stare us down or anything though and the guy is always telling us "he's got big balls to stare at you like that" and "wow, look at that terrier look he's giving you" and to correct his dogs he barks and growls at them! Are you serious!?! |
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Post by loverocksalot on May 19, 2010 20:07:29 GMT -5
Rocky looks at us all the time. It actually bothers some people. But it is how he communicates with me it is also why I chose him from the shelter. He looked right into my eyes and said I love you. I swear. I never feel it is a challenge or he has big balls.
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Chloe
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 433
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Post by Chloe on May 19, 2010 20:09:59 GMT -5
Rocky looks at us all the time. It actually bothers some people. But it is how he communicates with me it is also why I chose him from the shelter. He looked right into my eyes and said I love you. I swear. I never feel it is a challenge or he has big balls. LOL! I know!! Some people and their "knowledge" just crack me up! |
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Post by suziriot on May 19, 2010 21:04:31 GMT -5
The guy is a complete idiot too!! He thinks because he has JR's that he knows everything there is to know about dogs/terriers. Smash likes to make eye contact w/us, he watchs us a lot, he doesnt stare us down or anything though and the guy is always telling us "he's got big balls to stare at you like that" and "wow, look at that terrier look he's giving you" and to correct his dogs he barks and growls at them! Are you serious!?! Wow, that is DUMB! Some people really hang on to outdated ideas though, and refuse to progress or learn more.  |
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Post by emilys on May 19, 2010 22:34:19 GMT -5
Rocky looks at us all the time. It actually bothers some people. But it is how he communicates with me it is also why I chose him from the shelter. He looked right into my eyes and said I love you. I swear. I never feel it is a challenge or he has big balls. no, it's one of the unique things about pit bulls.. they DO stare at people, but NOT in a challenging way (assuming they're normal of course). Their stare is all about their self-confidence: "you know you love me.. I already love you" I think a lot of us fell for pit bulls because of that |
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Chloe
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 433
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Post by Chloe on May 20, 2010 9:46:26 GMT -5
Rocky looks at us all the time. It actually bothers some people. But it is how he communicates with me it is also why I chose him from the shelter. He looked right into my eyes and said I love you. I swear. I never feel it is a challenge or he has big balls. no, it's one of the unique things about pit bulls.. they DO stare at people, but NOT in a challenging way (assuming they're normal of course). Their stare is all about their self-confidence: "you know you love me.. I already love you" I think a lot of us fell for pit bulls because of that  That's so true! |
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Post by sugar on May 20, 2010 10:34:03 GMT -5
If someone comments that your dog is staring at you, just tell them your dog knows pretty when he sees it, |
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Post by adoptapitbull on May 20, 2010 10:39:39 GMT -5
Did you know that babies are more likely to stare at attractive people than ugly people? Just something to think about....
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Chloe
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 433
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Post by Chloe on May 20, 2010 13:09:20 GMT -5
If someone comments that your dog is staring at you, just tell them your dog knows pretty when he sees it, Awww, I love it! I'm so usin it too! Lol Thanks! |
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Post by RealPitBull on May 20, 2010 14:02:51 GMT -5
I'm no lawyer, but I think people can sue you for anything they want, regardless of whether something was your fault or not. Dog A starts the fight, Dog B finishes it and Dog A ends up with bad injuries or even killed - I could see Dog B's owner getting sued. People are pretty clueless about dog behavior in general and the whole notion of "who started it" may be up for serious debate to begin with (i.e the people with Dog A could have no idea that their dog starts trouble and the dog will look like the victim because he got his butt whupped).
As far as whether this will ruin his dog-tolerance, it could make him more sensitive. He's also figured out that aggression "works" for him. He still may never start a fight, but he could get pushed into fighting a lot easier now. Or he may totally not change his behavior at all.
Not to use this as an example, because I'm sorry this happened and I know you must be so upset about the whole thing, but this is a really good reason to keep Pit Bulls on leash and/or crated around other dogs - especially unknown dogs - and only off leash under very carefully controlled circumstances that involve savvy humans with dogs of known temperament and tolerance levels.
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Post by bluetrees on May 20, 2010 18:45:24 GMT -5
Jess constantly looks at us. She probably gazes at us more than she doesn't! It really is a look of warmth and understanding. I will often times gaze back and this really gets her tail wagging (or smacking the couch if she's laying down)! If she suddenly stopped doing this, I would be so sad.
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Chloe
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 433
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Post by Chloe on May 20, 2010 19:56:38 GMT -5
Jess constantly looks at us. She probably gazes at us more than she doesn't! It really is a look of warmth and understanding. I will often times gaze back and this really gets her tail wagging (or smacking the couch if she's laying down)! If she suddenly stopped doing this, I would be so sad. Chloe our female does the same thing. The more you look at her the harder and faster (and louder) the tail gets goin! |
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Keep an eye out for his reactivity and for any signs of fear and anxiety when he sees or is approached by unknown dogs. Ugh, what a horrible experience! 
That's so true!
