History - learn it, please!

[loverocksalot]

What is the Mark Homan book as I did not see that in the bibliography.

[bubsy]

I have also heard from so many different people that "no, really they were originally bred as all-purpose farm dogs" that I really don't know what to say. They are sooo adamant about it that I usually say nothing.

[loverocksalot]

I dont know about all purpose but were they not used for some kind of farm work? Maybe not farm work exactly, but taking down bulls and large boar and then went home to be family dogs.

[loverocksalot]

Let me rephrase what I mean. Not our APBT of today as a farm dog but the Bull dogs in which our APBT are believed to have evolved from were farm dogs, used for bull baiting and other work.
I thought I read that some where. I better go read some of the books and RPB History page.

[RealPitBull]

Yes, Bulldogs were bred as catch dogs. Bulldogs were used to help create the APBT breed. But Pit Bulls were originally created as fighting dogs. But like I like to point out that they were also always used simultaneously as family dogs/pets and no doubt for other sorts of work. There is a difference between what a breed was created for and what it was/is currently used for. When bullbaiting was banned, dog fighting became the go-to sport and that's when the breed was born.

[RealPitBull]

This is the Homan book....it's out of print unfortunately.

www.amazon.com/Complete-History-Fighting-Dogs/dp/1582451281

But if you can get your hands on a copy, it's a good read.

[michele5611]

Mary brings up a very important point that is lost on so many people- there is a difference between what a breed was created for and what it was/is currently used for. In my opinion the lack of understanding of the breed history can be seen in all the inaccurate "accounts" we now see and hear and has led to lots of confusion in general.

[loverocksalot]

There is one copy up on Ebay right now. Used stating bid 35.00

[bubsy]

Nicely put, Mary! Maybe I'll try to remember that next time I hear that APBT were originally bred as all purpose farm dogs ;-)

[loverocksalot]

I never heard anyone say they were originally bred as all purpose farm dogs. But I have head they were originally bread for bull baiting. Or did the American Pit Bull Terrier come to play from bull dogs who took down bulls then breeders evolved the APBT for gameness for fighting. in turn people realized then that they were also good for other work or just plain companionship.

[RealPitBull]

Jan 27, 2011 20:36:21 GMT -5 loverocksalot said:

I never heard anyone say they were originally bred as all purpose farm dogs. But I have head they were originally bread for bull baiting. Or did the American Pit Bull Terrier come to play from bull dogs who took down bulls then breeders evolved the APBT for gameness for fighting. in turn people realized then that they were also good for other work or just plain companionship.

I just got an email last night "correcting" me on my points about Pit Bulls having been bred for the, um, PIT. She shot off some facts that were actually correct but they were correct for BULLDOG history. The APBT sprang from Bulldogs (which were used for baiting bulls) and when bull baiting was outlawed, Bulldogs were mixed with working terriers and we ended up with the APBT. Why? Because bullbaiting was a bloodsport and people needed their bloodlust statisfied and when they couldn't sic dogs on bulls, they decided to sic dogs on each other.

The funny thing is that people get all defensive about the pit fighting history and try to deny it by pointing to Bulldog history as if that was strictly APBT history (it is NOT - pick up a book!!!!!). I get the feeling the baiting seems less cruel or something to these people (it's all about feeling nice and fluffy and pink). But baiting was an extremely brutal sport in and of itself.

[adoptapitbull]

I think baiting is the same, if not worse, than fighting. In that, you are giving the dogs the right to go out and kill the bull. The bull then has to fight to the death, either his own or the dogs'.

I think people are afraid that if they accept history as true, it makes their dog more vicious or "bad". It doesn't change your dog one bit. If anything, appreciate him for what he's become and not what he used to be.

And the "Nanny dog" thing...I don't understand why people don't like the term. When used correctly, in that many families kept APBTs as companions/family pets for their young children, why is it bad? No, it's not what they were bred for at all, but as long as it's used correctly, why is it bad? You see tons of old time photos with the dog posed with the kid and it's a-freakin-dorable!

[michele5611]

Alison I totally agree that people are afraid of accepting the history of the breed.

With regards to the Nanny dog thing-that refers to Staffordshire Bull Terriers not APBT. Also, I think a lot of people don't like the implications of saying nanny dog for fear that people will think it is acceptable to leave their child unattended with the dog.

[RealPitBull]

The point with the nanny dog term is that when people say "Pit Bulls used to be known as the nanny dog!!!!!!" they are actually incorrect. It's more made up/distorted history.

I do agree that it paints a picture that suggests it's ok to leave dogs alone with babies when that is something that is repeatedly shown to be disastrous.

[catstina]

This is such an informative thread! I knew the basic history of the breed, but it's always cool to learn more!

[shay19]

I know this will probably freak everyone out, but I refer to my little Aida as a "nanny dog"... but more of a baby sitter sometimes. But I DON"T refer to the entire breed this way, and I only say it to my fiance and parents.

But here's why I say it: I had a friend that used to come over with her 1 year old. Aida absolutely loves little kids and she does excellent around them which is why she had the oppurtunity to be around a child this young. (Of course I was right there too, along with my fiance and the child's mom)

This little girl was walking, but not entirely well and Aida would just follow her around. There was even a point that this little girl decided to take Aida for a walk by her ear, which I stopped of course. But anyway every time this little girl grabbed something off one of my shelves Aida would turn to me and give me this look like "mom, you need to come get this, she's playing with your stuff".

I hope that made sense lol.. I only use the tern in situations like this, and I would never leave Aida alone with a child. Actually I wouldn't even leave Aida with another full grown adult if I wasn't there... half the time I don't even trust my fiance lol.

Using it as this sort of reference is it still a bad term if it's not used to describe the breed as a whole or telling people outside of parents and my fiance??

[RealPitBull]

Shay, there is nothing wrong with calling Aida your little nanny dog! :-) (That is a really sweet story.)

My point was just that it is important to be factual when talking about the breed in an educational capacity. If you choose to not discuss some things about it, that is fine, but don't make things up because it "sounds better" to you. So often I see people who place themselves in positions of "breed authority" repeating things that indicate to me: a) that they are just parroting OTHER people who don't know what they are talking about and b) that none of these people have ever done any sort of real breed research.

Hope I'm making sense

[shay19]

Thanks Mary. I totally get what you're saying and yes it made sense. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't crossing a line at all by refering to Aida as my little baby sitter sometimes.

[catstina]

That's a really cute story! I don't see any problem with using "nanny dog" as a pet name for your own personal dog as long as you aren't using it to describe the breed as a whole. My aunts lab (RIP, Buck) used to sit by my stroller when I was a baby and growl at strangers who walked up to the stroller.

[shay19]

That's what I thought too, but just thought better safe than sorry ya know?

Lol my grandma's dog Ooboo (it's sounds the way it's spelled lol) used to watch me in my crib too. She wouldn't let anyone near me, although that sometimes included my mom and grandma lol.