mhaze
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 455
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Post by mhaze on May 27, 2011 14:10:23 GMT -5
I finished the book the other day, and I've been thinking about it a lot. I won't rehash what has already been said here about sugarcoating dog fighting. He doesn't think a life on a chain is so bad for the dogs, etc. Lots of things to frown on there...
However, I agree with him on some points, such as popularity of the breed being more harmful than organized dog fighting. Dog fighting sucks, but I think it's a distraction from bigger issues that threaten the breed. Popularity has never been good for animals (breeding for colors/big heads/etc.). I think he's right about the media popularizing the breed with the wrong people via what he calls the headline mentality.
Also interesting that it was the media that popularized the term pit bull, as most of the old-school 'fanciers' called them bulldogs. That's what I call mine, but only by coincidence.
I'm convinced that the dogs we know today came from a mold built on fighting. He writes about a correlation between gameness and the people-friendly side that makes them great pets. The history is there. I don't condone or admire it, but I think it is what it is. Is it required to preserve the breed? I don't buy it. If gameness can only be proven in the pit, what's the point? I think it's narrow thinking to believe that the same gameness can't be applied to other work. (My dogs love to 'work;' the tennis ball, the spring pole, the harness and skateboard, etc.)
Overall, I'm glad I read it. If you're interested in the history (and shouldn't you be?), I recommend it.
Now it's time to spoil the crap out of my muscle-bound, snugly bulldogs.
- Mike
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Post by suziriot on May 27, 2011 18:34:52 GMT -5
Excellent summary Mike. I haven't read it, but it sounds like I would probably agree with your opinions. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!
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Post by RealPitBull on May 31, 2011 7:27:24 GMT -5
This was the first book I read on Pit Bulls ever. I still get a little bit of a nostalgic rush when I think about it - I read the book and fell in love with the breed. After that book, my life became Pit Bulls.
Mike already summarized the main problems with the book. Although I do not think gameness per se has anything to do with the breed being people-friendly, there is a mushy-gushy way about the gamebred dogs that I haven't found in any other dog.
When I first read Stratton (he has 4 books, all worth reading IMO), I was convinced that gamebred was the way to go. Then I met my first AmStaffs and fell in love with them and I was like "WTF Stratton, you LIED!"
I've switched to AmStaffs over papered APBTs at this point (in terms of purchasing dogs from breeders) - obviously AmStaffs are not gamebred and a correct AmStaff is a sound, stable people-loving dog. And very similar temperament-wise to any APBT far-removed from the pit.
This is a subject I could go on and on about. Honestly, I got into these dogs from the place of a "breed fancier" and only got into rescue and advocacy after I realized how badly the breed needed help.
I find myself getting more and more tired of the "pittie/pit bull-type dog rescue" arena because the BREED is just completely lost in the shuffle at this point. When I talk to other "pit bull people", I'm mostly just talking to people who have a vague notion of a dog that simply looks a certain way, with no clue as to the true history or what a REAL Pit Bulldog is all about - and usually they simply don't care.
This forum is a rarity because there are people on here who care about rescue and helping dogs, but also care about the breed itself and learning what the APBT actually is, and is all about.
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Post by bluetrees on May 31, 2011 8:36:50 GMT -5
This forum is a rarity because there are people on here who care about rescue and helping dogs, but also care about the breed itself and learning what the APBT actually is, and is all about. Which is why I come back for more and more.  |
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Post by emilys on May 31, 2011 9:19:15 GMT -5
one of the problems I have with Stratton's books is that they were for a long time about the only books with any pit bull history... and as we now know, it's a history that is very limited in focus. And then Jessup came along with her attempt at an antidote (The Working Pit Bull).... and the gameboy cultists and their minions have blasted her ever since (for entirely unrelated and exaggerated reasons)
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Post by RealPitBull on May 31, 2011 9:25:00 GMT -5
Maybe the only real history that's available on these dogs is from gamedog people because gamedog people are who created the breed.......  |
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Post by emilys on May 31, 2011 10:25:33 GMT -5
Maybe the only real history that's available on these dogs is from gamedog people because gamedog people are who created the breed....... ;D ha.. yeah, it's too bad none of the moms with kids posing with their pit bulls ever chose to write their stories... |
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Post by bubsy on May 31, 2011 23:20:45 GMT -5
I find myself getting more and more tired of the "pittie/pit bull-type dog rescue" arena because the BREED is just completely lost in the shuffle at this point. When I talk to other "pit bull people", I'm mostly just talking to people who have a vague notion of a dog that simply looks a certain way, with no clue as to the true history or what a REAL Pit Bulldog is all about - and usually they simply don't care. Good points, I find this is also true with other breed rescues as well. There is such an overwhelming need for rescue, esp with APBTs, that volunteers are not usually serious breed fanciers. I was involved with a Basset Hound rescue for a while, not because I love Bassets LOL...in fact I know very little about their history, important people/dogs that made the breed what it is today. I got involved when I wanted to foster a Rottweiler, but that breed I'm interested in and I know a bit about. But I noticed that of all the main people involved in the group, none were "real" Basset people, fanciers, breeders, folks involved in conformation, hunting, sports, etc. The group was founded by someone relatively new to the breed b/c there was a real need for a Basset rescue in this area. I was always kind of envious of the Boxer rescue here b/c it's run by folks who are involved in conformation, agility, etc. I love to geek out on conformation stuff, pedigrees, performance stuff but I never got to do that with my rescue peeps. Not that I was into that side of the Basset bizness LOL. They are pleasant dogs, but I don't have a passion for them. Ok, I've lost my point...did I have a point? LOL, oh yes...I feel for ya on the APBT rescue front because I think that train has left the station. I'm doubtful that the new crop of folks will ever become students of the breed...and in a way I can understand because the rescue work itself is so overwhelming...but it's still a shame. |
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Post by michele5611 on Jun 1, 2011 8:16:54 GMT -5
To expand upon what Erin said- yes I do not think the new crop of pit bull people will ever get on board.
I think these people don’t care about the breed specifics/traits and or history because they simply don’t feel it is important. I get how overwhelming rescue is and how at the end of the day the objective is to rescue and place dogs. Having a basic knowledge and or understanding of the breed is imperative in my opinion, not only for the dogs being placed and rescued but for the overall breed in general. This is where the fundamental differences come into play…they don’t care about preserving the breed.
I also find it ironic that these very same people who don’t seem to care about the history seem to care when those of us who are real breed fanciers and knowledgeable voice our opinions.
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mhaze
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 455
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Post by mhaze on Jun 1, 2011 10:05:12 GMT -5
Yeah, his stance on AmStaffs is puzzling. You would think he'd met enough of them to know better. I think it's all fascinating.
Ditto.
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Post by michele5611 on Jun 1, 2011 10:18:58 GMT -5
Mike any plans to read the other books?
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mhaze
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 455
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Post by mhaze on Jun 1, 2011 13:12:11 GMT -5
Mike any plans to read the other books? I do plan to read the others. I'm not sure which one I want to read next, though. |
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Post by dooktruck on Jun 2, 2011 7:08:31 GMT -5
where did you guys find the book? amazon?
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mhaze
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 455
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Post by mhaze on Jun 2, 2011 7:34:02 GMT -5
where did you guys find the book? amazon? That's where I got my copy. |
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Post by RealPitBull on Jun 2, 2011 9:12:02 GMT -5
Libraries have copies sometimes, too.
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mhaze
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 455
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Post by mhaze on Jun 8, 2011 9:13:11 GMT -5
I decided to read his book, This Is American Pit Bull Terrier. It arrives today!
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Post by RealPitBull on Jun 8, 2011 14:42:09 GMT -5
 Truth is my fave but they are all good, IMO.
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I look forward to learning much here