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Post by RealPitBull on Sept 15, 2011 15:23:01 GMT -5
Thanks, now I understand a bit better that it's about breed specification this and that. From what I've read too is that American Staffordshires were kind of "created" as a leaner, larger, variation of the original staffie Nope. They were pretty much "modeled" after the APBT of the time. They WERE the APBT of the time, the name just got changed for political reasons. And there was nothing known as a "Staffie/Staffordshire" anything prior to this time in purebred dog registries.  (No flames! LOL) |
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Post by maryellen on Sept 15, 2011 15:55:27 GMT -5
also dont forget, the word "amstaff" has less meaning then "pit bull" when it comes to JQ Public... i see a ton of shelters listing pitbull type dogs as amstaffs when they clearly look like a pit bull.... the amstaff is less "terrifying" , as you never hear the media refer to an "amstaff attack"...... by changing the name the shelters make the dog more adoptable , as all the media reports of "pitbulls attacking people" NEVER say amstaff attacking people.....
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Post by RealPitBull on Sept 15, 2011 16:25:19 GMT -5
^ Yup yup
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Post by emilys on Sept 15, 2011 17:42:00 GMT -5
Mary's summary is great. Of course!
But it's still my contention that 99% of the people in the world cannot distinquish an APBT from an AST just by appearance, or from behafior.. Even that classic terrier-style lightfooted dog, or that classic rednose might be an AST. The only exception is that generally that ripped, tall rangy dog is probably an ADBA APBT (assuming it's a purebred which I don't in the case of the ADBA).
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Post by emilys on Sept 15, 2011 17:44:04 GMT -5
Thanks, now I understand a bit better that it's about breed specification this and that. From what I've read too is that American Staffordshires were kind of "created" as a leaner, larger, variation of the original staffie Nope. They were pretty much "modeled" after the APBT of the time. They WERE the APBT of the time, the name just got changed for political reasons. And there was nothing known as a "Staffie/Staffordshire" anything prior to this time in purebred dog registries. (No flames! LOL) never flame Mary! The first ASTs were just APBTs. Same dog. Nothing added/subtracted . Changes from the English version, which later became known as the SBT, had already occurred. I haven't seen any references to the American dog as a Staffordshire anything until the AKC naming politics thing. |
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Post by RealPitBull on Sept 15, 2011 17:48:25 GMT -5
Mary's summary is great. Of course! But it's still my contention that 99% of the people in the world cannot distinquish an APBT from an AST just by appearance, or from behafior.. Even that classic terrier-style lightfooted dog, or that classic rednose might be an AST. The only exception is that generally that ripped, tall rangy dog is probably an ADBA APBT (assuming it's a purebred which I don't in the case of the ADBA). I totally agree with this. |
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Post by RealPitBull on Sept 15, 2011 17:49:31 GMT -5
Keep in mind that many, if not most, so-called AmStaffs or Pit Bulls in shelters will be crossed with something that's not way back in it's lineage, or scatterbred without thought to conformation. So even if the dog is pure, it won't look like any standard, and if it's not, there's really no way it can. Even within different kennel clubs, the same breed may look different. Certain breeders may like a trait that's different from another, and their dogs won't look exactly alike. That's why, at least at my old shelter, all the dogs are pit bull mixes. Without a pedigree you can't tell what they are. And, um, suzi, you know that you can't ID a pit bull. It doesn't exist. Thumbs up to this too, totally on point. |
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Post by bubsy on Sept 15, 2011 18:31:20 GMT -5
OMG, I want her! And as for the Amstaff vs. APBT thing...unless it's an AKC registered AmStaff, I don't call it an AmStaff :-)
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Post by emilys on Sept 15, 2011 18:45:06 GMT -5
also dont forget, the word "amstaff" has less meaning then "pit bull" when it comes to JQ Public... i see a ton of shelters listing pitbull type dogs as amstaffs when they clearly look like a pit bull.... the amstaff is less "terrifying" , as you never hear the media refer to an "amstaff attack"...... by changing the name the shelters make the dog more adoptable , as all the media reports of "pitbulls attacking people" NEVER say amstaff attacking people..... which was pretty much the same thinking AKC had in 1936 when it adopted that name...  |
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Post by loverocksalot on Sept 15, 2011 18:50:47 GMT -5
Your best bet is to just assume it is a Pit Bull or Pit Mix. There aren't very many AKC registered AmStaffs, and all things considered probably very few ending up in shelters. All AmStaffs are APBTs, not all APBTs are AmStaffs. This is a registry/politics thing. The UKC up until very recently allowed any AmStaff to be registered as an APBT. They don't allow that anymore - they don't allow any single registration of the APBT, so even APBTs from the ADBA cannot be single registered with the UKC. The ADBA still allows registration of AmStaffs under the name APBT. Like I said, registry/political BS. APBTs and AmStaffs are the same thing and share the same history. Trace any AmStaff blood and you'll go back (very quickly or over a course of several generations depending on the dog) to APBT bloodlines. However, many AmStaff breeders have kept their lines AKC-only for quite a few generations, so you won't see ANY UKC or ADBA dogs for generations. The flip side is that you'll have APBTs that don't have any AKC / AmStaff bloodlines in them at all because a breeder may have stayed away from any dogs that were registered with the AKC. As an example, I can take my AKC registered AmStaff and trace him back to APBTs (and some famous pit dogs start showing up around generation 7 or 8). But I could trace my UKC registered APBT's pedigree back for ages and never come up with any AKC dogs (AmStaffs). This isn't because he's UKC registered, it's because of his bloodline, btw. Many UKC registered dogs have AmStaff bloodlines because of all the dual registration that's gone on for so long. The point is, every single AmStaff is going to have APBT bloodines show up in its pedigree. NOT every APBT will show any AmStaff bloodlines in its pedigree (many, many won't, esp. ADBA and gamedog lines). Now that I've probably confused the heck out of everyone, I'll shut up. Yes, it's convoluted and confusing. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if the AKC just never changed the breed name from APBT to AmStaff. P.s. blue dogs are generally going to have AmStaff blood in there somewhere. Red/rednose dogs won't. And I always tell people, just assume it's a Pit Bull unless you have actual AKC papers. YEAH! what she said! |
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Post by loverocksalot on Sept 15, 2011 18:55:31 GMT -5
also dont forget, the word "amstaff" has less meaning then "pit bull" when it comes to JQ Public... i see a ton of shelters listing pitbull type dogs as amstaffs when they clearly look like a pit bull.... the amstaff is less "terrifying" , as you never hear the media refer to an "amstaff attack"...... by changing the name the shelters make the dog more adoptable , as all the media reports of "pitbulls attacking people" NEVER say amstaff attacking people..... Thats the truf, truf. wait how do you spell truth with an f sound anyway? That dumb commercial, I just could not help to think of it. |
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Post by scoutsmom on Nov 8, 2011 14:04:59 GMT -5
This guy looks just like my baby in the face, but I believe she's taller than he is. She goes about 60lbs.
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Post by melonie on Nov 8, 2011 21:43:54 GMT -5
If I had been asked what she might be, I would have said pit mix. AmStaff doesn't even come to mind.
She is a cute, that's for sure.
When I took Lilly to the vet, he said that she looked like she might have a bit of pit bull in her. I told him she isn't a mix!
I know both her parents are pit bulls. So not even a vet can correctly identify a dog, and I think a lot of ppl trust and rely on their vets opinion.
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daves
Full Fledged Poster
Posts: 188
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Post by daves on Dec 13, 2011 19:32:35 GMT -5
Doing my happy dance. Jessie has gone home to a wonderful family. They took their time to make sure they were making a good decision then had their yard fenced in before they took her home. They came to the shelter many times to play with Jessie in the shelter yard and spend time with her in our 'living' room.
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Post by suziriot on Dec 13, 2011 19:40:33 GMT -5
^ That's great news! Congrats to Jessie!  |
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(No flames! LOL) 
I look forward to learning much here