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Post by Dave on Jan 10, 2012 9:45:40 GMT -5
Suzi, hopefully it's just the full moon we're having. Lola has been a little odd the past couple days, too. She keeps staring down Sedona, and I have a hard time breaking her concentration when she does. Lola has unfinished business, I guess. For one person to break two locked dogs, it takes a cool head. Leash one (the one with the lesser hold if that's the case) and tie it to something immovable. Pull the dogs til the leash is taut. Then use your break stick on the other dog and pull it away. Sounds easy, right?  |
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Post by suziriot on Jan 10, 2012 10:12:00 GMT -5
I would rank this fight about halfway between the random little snarky spats that Otis and Barley sometimes had, which I could break up with just my voice and never resulted in any damage, and the absolute worst fight I've ever had to break between Lebowski and Otis, which resulted in Lebowski being on permanent C&R. In last night's fight, nobody was really latched on, they broke apart a couple times only to try again before I was able to get them in crates, and the broom I used separated them relatively easily. No break stick needed in this one.
I did realize that the fight happened right underneath where their food is kept, and Brook told me that he got called in to work early and they didn't get breakfast. When the fight happened, I was putting the laundry in but I had also gathered their bowls for dinner. So I think that this may have been about getting excited for dinner and possible guarding of the food, even though it was in the cabinet above them. I have no way of knowing, but I feel like Otis probably instigated it. He can be pretty snarky sometimes. Brandy is usually just so easy going that she doesn't react. So we're going to keep them completely separated and let them heal up for a few days, then take it from there. Oy, I freaking HATE this!
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Post by Dave on Jan 10, 2012 10:19:20 GMT -5
Lola got nasty on Rocky about a month ago while they were waiting behind me for breakfast. All loud and snarly, but really no contact. I separated them, for a couple weeks, while I got breakfast ready, and now they are back to the old routine. Sometimes they just gotta assert themselves, I guess. They just need a trigger.
They'll forget. But I bet you won't. In my experience it's the quiet attacks that are the most serious.
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Post by michele5611 on Jan 10, 2012 11:38:47 GMT -5
Sorry it has been a rough couple of weeks for you all. Hope things get better and the pups are all on the mend!
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Post by RealPitBull on Jan 10, 2012 12:11:32 GMT -5
Suzi, I'm so sorry. What a crappy thing to have happen. I'm so glad the dogs are ok.
Stupid Pit Bulls always keepin' us on our toes.....
Oh, and Mike, I have a handout that you might want. I'll post it in this thread when I have it (not on this computer).
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Post by melonie on Jan 10, 2012 15:26:55 GMT -5
For one person to break two locked dogs, it takes a cool head. Leash one (the one with the lesser hold if that's the case) and tie it to something immovable. Pull the dogs til the leash is taut. Then use your break stick on the other dog and pull it away. Sounds easy, right? When Rhett and Winston were at it a leash didn't even come to mind. They were both latched on and not backing off. Winston kept dragging Rhett, so I just tried to direct them into a corner so Winston had to stop dragging him. I shoved a clothes hamper between them at some point and I think that's what caused them to both let go long enough for me to shove Rhett in a crate, but Winston was right there. Neither got locked on again and I was able to get Rhett out of the crate and the door shut. It happens so incredibly fast, yet it seems like it moves in slow motion and takes forever. I think all intelligent though leaves your mind and adrenaline takes over. I don't think I could have even told you my name in the middle of that. We should do a sticky on how to handle naughty dogs in a fight, if there isn't already one! |
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Post by adoptapitbull on Jan 10, 2012 15:44:29 GMT -5
Exactly, Mel! It's like we revert to animals ourselves for a few seconds.
For me, the worst part is the post-fight helpless/nauseous/shaky/dizzy feeling. It's like panic, adrenaline, and shock all in one. It takes me days to be back to normal.
Doesn't it kind of ruffle your feathers, too, when you see complete morons have 4-5 Pits and for some ungodly reason, they all get along? I don't wish a dog fight on anyone, but I do wish for fewer fights among breed advocates!
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Post by suziriot on Jan 10, 2012 15:57:38 GMT -5
For me, the worst part is the post-fight helpless/nauseous/shaky/dizzy feeling. It's like panic, adrenaline, and shock all in one. It takes me days to be back to normal. Ugh, I hate that. The adrenaline triggers my asthma and I have problems for days afterwards. Today my lungs are totally inflamed and I keep coughing. Everyone thinks I'm sick, and I don't want to tell them "nah, my pit bulls just got in a fight." Side rant... when I was at the vet last night, I kept Brandy in the car while we waited to get in to an exam room. An older woman was sitting near the door with a sweet old cocker spaniel girl. Another woman comes in with an out of control lab mix something. It was in a collar that was going to slip off any second, and it was lunging at everything. The older woman turns her body to shield her cocker from this jerk dog, and the other woman is completely oblivious, letting her dog get way too close and acting like nothing is wrong. The she sits down next to the old woman and her jerk dog is blocking the door. WTF?! The old woman says "excuse me" and picks her dog up, I jump up to open the door for her, and she takes her dog out to the car. The older woman says to me, "I was worried that her dog was going to kill mine!" and I told her it was very smart of her to take her dog out of there. I gave that other woman such a dirty look, then asked the vet tech to tell that woman to move her obviously aggressive dog away from the door. They did. But SERIOUSLY??? This woman's dog was totally out of control aggressive and she was sitting there like nothing was happening. I brought Brandy in with a martingale, halter, double tether Ella's Lead, and a muzzle just in case. Grrrr, I hate people!!! Ok, rant over.  |
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Post by Dave on Jan 10, 2012 16:26:23 GMT -5
Melonie, I remember once trying to get a 60 lb dog off a 45 lb, it was hard. Even the girls, at 40 and less, were very difficult to handle. I can't imagine what you and Allison went through.
Thankfully I'm able to keep my head until the fight is over and the dogs are safe. That's when I start to crumble.
When the girls had their blow-out, I took them separately to the e-vet, but brought them home together. Oy. Lola kept trying to get in the back to Sedona in her crate (could only fit one in the car), even with her eye swollen shut, face like a gourd, dripping saliva. She was a mess, but didn't care a whit. These dogs are just unbelievable.
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Post by maryellen on Jan 10, 2012 16:53:04 GMT -5
oh suzi i hope they are both going to be ok. i have a babygate in the kitchen and when its time to eat rufus comes in the kitchen and i lock the gate and he eats in the kitchen and the other 2 are on the other side and eat in the dining room separated from him as rufus will get assholey after food. can you babygate the kitchen and then put one dog in the kitchen and the others behind other gates at feeding time?
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Post by adoptapitbull on Jan 10, 2012 16:54:53 GMT -5
And I find it amazing how adrenaline totally numbs you (and the dogs, too) during a brawl.
I remember seeing drops of blood everywhere on the floor back when Mav and Snorts went at it once in FL. I kept checking them over on their faces, their legs, backs, in their ears, mouth...everywhere. Then I realized I was the dripper. My whole arm was full of punctures, and my finger was almost bit clean through. Clearly I had no idea how to safely break it up back then.
It wasn't till hours later that my body ached and swelled up to double. I remember sitting in the ER for my tetanus shot (knew it needed sutures, but waited so they couldn't do it) and my arm was bleeding through my shirt. I put on a jacket so they wouldn't see. I think my whole "slammed my finger in a door" story would have been bunked if they saw my arm. There was no way in helllll I was telling anyone that my own dogs did this to me.
How do you explain to people that getting bit in a fight is different than getting bit on a normal day? I know that those few I've told probably think that my boys are all monsters just waiting to snack on me when I'm not looking. In reality, they have never even so much as growled at me in "real life".
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Post by suziriot on Jan 10, 2012 16:58:17 GMT -5
ME, we're definitely going to be doing separate feedings at a minimum. Because this didn't even happen over food that was out, just ramping up to food being made. So even when food is being made they're going to be crated.
I talked to Gale today and she gave me some really good advice for desensitizing and positive conditioning with reintroductions once we're ready.
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Post by adoptapitbull on Jan 10, 2012 16:59:32 GMT -5
Care to share, Suz??
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Post by maryellen on Jan 10, 2012 17:03:34 GMT -5
suzi do you have the plastic food containers? i use those, its way better then just having the bags around ( i have to throw the bag out immediately or if rufus smells it he will guard the spot its in and get all snarky) the gate has helped tremendously, as the old dalmation has no control and will push in front of the other dogs for the food, so i keep them separated more for her sake due to her being so old. i also sweep and clean the floor right after to make sure no crumbs are left (crumbs with cleaner on them = ignoring.. crumbs with no cleaner on them = snarky behavior from rufus)
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Post by suziriot on Jan 10, 2012 17:05:52 GMT -5
suzi do you have the plastic food containers? i use those, its way better then just having the bags around ( i have to throw the bag out immediately or if rufus smells it he will guard the spot its in and get all snarky) the gate has helped tremendously, as the old dalmation has no control and will push in front of the other dogs for the food, so i keep them separated more for her sake due to her being so old. i also sweep and clean the floor right after to make sure no crumbs are left (crumbs with cleaner on them = ignoring.. crumbs with no cleaner on them = snarky behavior from rufus) We do keep it in a bin in a cabinet. But I had just brought home a new bag the night before and had not put it in the bin yet.  |
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Post by suziriot on Jan 10, 2012 17:07:32 GMT -5
Sure. Basically it's positively reinforcing positive interactions between them. I'll come back to go into more detail later when I have more time. |
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Post by bubsy on Jan 10, 2012 23:11:03 GMT -5
Doesn't it kind of ruffle your feathers, too, when you see complete morons have 4-5 Pits and for some ungodly reason, they all get along? I don't wish a dog fight on anyone, but I do wish for fewer fights among breed advocates! Yeah, I wonder how it doesn't happen for the people with 4-5 dogs. |
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Post by adoptapitbull on Jan 12, 2012 8:21:51 GMT -5
A little update...
Ever since Saturday, I've been putting Mav and Cappy together for a few minutes at a time. Usually in the morning when Cap is still in bed, or in the evening when it's bedtime. These are the calmest times in our house. I let them sniff and see each other for about 5 minutes, then I separate again. Yesterday Mav was engaging Cappy in some play. I let them play for about a minute, then back to their areas they went. Right now they're both on the bed together just relaxing. It seems like they "forgot" again.
I'm still going to be extra cautious and not let them together most of the time. I feel that by seeing each other through their crates when I leave the house plus these short meet-n-greet sessions are enough to keep them familiar with each other. The last thing I want to do is keep them separated so much that when they meet again, it's like two brand new dogs.
We're just going to do it this way till Jim comes home. I can tell that Cappy is a little depressed that he's gone, and I don't doubt that his frustration contributed to the fight.
Suzi, how are Otis and Brandy? Are they still separated?
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Post by suziriot on Jan 12, 2012 11:29:24 GMT -5
^ Otis and Brandy are still separated because they need to physically heal. Brandy's eye is getting better, but the lid is still split and swollen. And Otis has all those scratches and a shallow puncture.
Regarding Gale's advice about reintroductions... keep interaction brief and positive. Reward positive interaction: walking past one another with no stink eye, them giving calming signals like licking their lips or yawning or head turning, etc. You can reward with treats, but give it to them separately and not if it's likely to create jealousy or problems. If any tension or bad looks are happening, don't freak out or yell. In a happy voice tell them to go to their crates and give them treats for doing so. It's also really important that you are not nervous or tense because they'll pick up on that.
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mhaze
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 455
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Post by mhaze on Jan 12, 2012 13:29:23 GMT -5
Great thread. Great information, as always. Thanks for sharing.
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I look forward to learning much here