it was here liz:
thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/search/label/ATTSThis "truth" design for t-shirts, was created by pit bull talk member mnp13 and is available at cafe press for $25. Please note that mnp13 is a pit bull owner who has witnessed up close and personal how flawed the test is.
In their own words
What pit bull owners say in public is much different from what they say to each other in "private".
The link to Diane Jessup advising fellow thepitbull-place.com members to enter only dogs that will pass the ATTS, was killed after I posted it on craven desires. Please alert me to any dead links and I will replace with pdfs and/or screen shots.
click to view at 100%
Pit bull rescuer, owner and advocate Ellena Thomas of the pacific northwest pit bull rescue explains the ATTS.
"Again, its so the judges know if your dog is trained in anything. For example, the last step of the test requires an aggressive stranger to approach. A protection trained dog should aggress, but a correct-temperament APBT should not.
Basically, the ATTS is an instinct test. All breeds are judged according to their proper temperament mandated for their breed. A Mastiff is allowed to be forward, assertive and in certain sitiuations, aggressive. An APBT should be friendly, a little wary with noises, quick to recover and generally happy."
Thomas' explanation contradicts this individual's experience. Here pitbulltalk member Tiger describes her ATTS and her violation of the test rules while still passing.
"Doja did great and passed with flying colors. I was so proud of her.
She was the only dog tested there today that wanted to eat the threatening stranger - so she got high marks for that.
It was funny - most of the other dogs (Belgians included) only looked at him, or ignored him, Even when he was hollering and bashing a stick on the ground. But Doja hit the end of the lead like the little freight train she is and was telling him that he had best stay far away from her Mommy NOW!! Some of the people watching (including some of the testers) actually applauded a bit when she did that."
"While we were int the ring waiting to start Dexter decided to pee! Luckily none of the testers saw it but everyone else did and they were laughing and saying "shhhhh...dont say anything!"
"Yes, he peed on the umbrella. And Rob captured it in a photo. I'm still so embarrassed. I was sure they'd fail us for that. But apparently they're not looking for manners in this test--just responses to various stimuli." "she didn't even know it was happening till after I yelled NOOOOO!"
"another pit bull mix dog that was with us that day, paige, barked and lunged and kicked up the dust till the guy was gone, and she's not protection trained at all. she passed just fine, though. they actually want the dog to identify threatening behavior--your dog gets lower marks if it fails to respond at all, like doc."
apbtmom76
My Penny has passed this and Orion will be taking this test in a few weekends. It is a good test and they are linient about somethings.
Some testers are sometimes lenient on some aspects of the test on some dogs. It really depends on the whims and the motives of the tester.
mnp13 comments on an ambull that should have failed but didn't.
At the test that I brought Ruby and Connor to an American Bulldog was was trained as a "Professional Personal Protection Dog" took a h-u-g-e stress poop before the first station and then turned sideways to the threatening stranger and ignored him. There is no way that dog should have passed
pitbulltalk mnp13
The CGC is meant to be a test of training and manners, the TT is meant to be a test of temperament. ideally you don't "train the test" for the TT.
you really don't need to worry about that because when you fill out your application for the test they ask you if your dog is trained in schutzhund or other sports, and they take that into account when evaluating. so if the dog lights up at the stranger more than a "regular" dog might, that will be considered.
another pit bull mix dog that was with us that day, paige, barked and lunged and kicked up the dust till the guy was gone, and she's not protection trained at all. she passed just fine, though. they actually want the dog to identify threatening behavior--your dog gets lower marks if it fails to respond at all, like doc.
If a schutzhund trained Ambull fails to respond aggressively to the stranger, it passes but if a non trained husky responds it fails. The testers are not evaluating dogs consistently or fairly.
pitbullmamaliz
That's how it is supposed to be done. However, the chief judge at my test deducted points from Inara because she "wasn't a good guard dog." (his exact words) Apparently he didn't study the chapter where it says pits are not known for their guardian skills
pbf voodoo on the importance of practicing for the test
"I've been working with Champagne as well. She was super scared of the umbrella at first but now she tries to play with it and it's one of her favorite toys."
Experienced "responsible" pit bull owner, ATTS tester Leslie Haller advises pitbulltalk member hey21jude on the ATTS.
"I'm an ATTS provisional tester. Dexter would certainly pass the neutral and friendly stranger parts of the test if he acts like he did when I met him. I believe they record mixed breeds as mixed breeds. You can certainly get away with calling him an apbt."
Leslie Haller is a school teacher.
hey21jude replies
"Hi Leslie! Glad to hear he would at least pass part of the test. I think we'd do OK for the other parts too. As long as I'm with him, he doesn't go into "panic mode". I would love to sign him up as an APBT just to get another passed test for the stats(If we pass).
Thanks again for all the info guys!"
pitbullmamaliz describes how her pit Inara barely passed the ATTS.
So, I then go sit in a chair and eavesdrop as best I can while the testers compare notes. The only comment I catch is one tester gave Inara a low score for the gunshots because she "looked at her mommy which is a fear response." Well, she's a dog who's never heard gunshots before. I thought it was great she looked to me, but they want the dog to act like you're not even there. I guess they wanted her to go towards the gunshots to investigate. Whatever, I liked that she looked at me for direction.
Then the chief tester came over. He gave me the thumbs up, so I got excited and said, "she passed???" He said yes and then paused. He then told me that "she's not bad, but she's not good." Um, what? He very snottily told me that I have a horrible guard dog. I told him that I didn't get her to be a guard dog. It took all I had to not ask if he was aware that this breed is not supposed to be a good guard dog, but I didn't want to piss off the guy with my test. He then tells me that Inara has no attention span and desperately needs some obedience classes. He sighed and said, "well, she's still young, so she SHOULD get better. Hopefully she'll get better."
Based on the chief tester's comments, i would guess that this pit bull was tested among a GSD, rott or dobie schutzhund club and is either unaware that dogs without protection training should not be responding aggressively or doesn't care.
new pitbulltalk member tradewind introduces herself to the forum.
"My name is Monique and I live in MA near Cape Cod. I have 3 Amstaffs, 1 male and 2 females. I'm active in showing, starting out in Obedience, and I am an apprentice tester with the ATTS, and I am very active in BSL."
It is inappropriate for ATTS testers to be active in BSL.
apbtmom76 describes the appropriate response to the threatening stranger.
An acceptable raction from any dog, UNLESS it is trained n PP, is to put itself between its master and the stranger, to be on alert, to warn you but they should NOT lunge or act overly aggressive to the weird stranger
"the TT is meant to be a test of temperament. ideally you don't "train the test" for the TT."
apbtmom76 tested one of her dogs and gives advice to another pitbull-chat members.
"kris, practice with your dog and try it. I am not sure how Phoenix will do his 2nd time through and I truely don't think Orion will ever pass. He is too much of a goober."
pbf sarah
"I actually forgot and said something to Tess while I was taking her through, and it didn't affect anything (I just said "come on pup!", or something of that nature, after a station), so I wouldn't get too freaked out about the potential for forgetting to be quiet."
gsdbulldog on pre-test jitters.
"I'm still a bit nervous, so I think I'll get a friend of mine to test my dogs now and see how they respond."
bulldogbreeds member attitude about temperament tests.
oh hey, i know tt's aren't foolproof but it is a start. tt is only as good as the person doing the eval, and i have seen many (many) dogs that shouldn't pass do so, in all of the listed tt types.
Comforting, isn't it?
2005 Romanwild
"I know we can eventually beat the labradors!"
They are closing in.
2005 lisa mawson
"We are very close to having a higher % pass rate than GOLDEN RETRIEVERS! Of course this is no secret to us, but lets not KEEP it a secret!"
They set a goal and they achieved it. The pit bulls have surpassed the goldens.
pbf member Maryellen Harwelik (realpitbull.com) advises pblove on passing the umbrella test.
"have you tried giving her high value treats when she goes near the closed umbrella? work on it this way. then, open the umbrella a little bit on the floor, any time she goes near it, praise and treat.. keep doing baby steps with the umbrella until its fully opened on the floor, praise and treats for each time.. then, roll the umbrella, if she does not get scared, praise and treat.. its a slow process that should work."
"And dont be nervous, we will do a walk through that morning (be there at 8-8:30!) and talk about each step of the test to help everyone feel more comfortable with it!"
All of this practice feels like like cheating to me. This is like getting all of the answers to the test before hand.
pbf Leslie Haller
I won't test Soleil, because she'll be unnerved by the threatening stranger, and bail out early on.
Other members chime in and explain that they also will not test their dogs because they know they will fail.
pbf Red
Personally I test only pit bulls I know are going to pass , mine or belonging to other people, because if a dog does not pass it hurts the breed statistics ( although it looks like they are not updating the numbers often).
Just something to keep in mind for anyone who wants to enter their dogs...unless the animal in question can be exposed to some stimulation for an extended period of time and don't be bother by it keep him/her away in a vehicle or area that is quiet. Most people "park" their dogs by the testing field, which means that the dogs hear the gun shots, the yelling drunken man and dogs barking while waiting to be tested and that can be a significant amount of time. That is a lot for many dogs to handle, especially if they are not show dogs, dogs who compete in some sports or are used to the usual chaos in similar environments. By the time they enter the test their stress level has increased and moving from one station to the other end up with an animal who is overwhelmed or score low.Most test are held in conjunction with some kind of dog event so that is something to take in consideration.
Red is a dog trainer, experienced pit bull owner and experienced at taking the ATTS. She is also apparently an ATTS handler for hire as well, further insuring that a pit bulldog will pass the test with her confident demeanor and further skewing the test scores.
pbsmiles sarallyn
The ATTS is really helping to keep this breed in one piece... without them, i'm sure we would be in some deep sh**
good read, thanks for posting.
The pit bull apologia knows EXACTLY what it is doing. Unfortunately, the public is oblivious to what lies beneath the cut and paste propaganda scores.