angels8
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Pitbull Snuggler
Posts: 252
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Post by angels8 on Jan 5, 2009 19:13:44 GMT -5
Well after our little run with the raw dietwhich was going well until we tried to find a butcher, which is amazingly hard in Texas as most butchers are Carnicerias (mexican meat market) and no one speaks english nor understands that i am trying to get stuff for my dogs, we had to go back to dry kibble we went to petsmart and found Nature's Recipe Chicken (it sounds decent for dry kibble)
Ingredients: Chicken meal, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Brown Rice, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Chicken, Fat Product (natural source of DHA), Tomato Pomace, Dried Brewers Yeast, Animal Digest, Salt, Chicory Root, Potassium Chloride, Alfalfa Nutrient Concentrate, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Inositol, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta-Carotene, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Iron Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Choline Chloride, L-Carnitine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Yucca Shidigera, Rosemary Extract.
I came home today about about week 2 of the girls being on it and Toshka's face is swollen, her ears red and she has water for poo. Poor Toshka has exploded in her crate, on the wall, on the carpet, on her sister who is in a crate that is beside hers. It is 24* out today and we were sent home early due to icing and rain and I am very glad. So 2 dog baths and an untold number of trips outside for emergency explosions I am sitting here calling these meat markets asking for random animal parts in Spanish.. as well as this little white girl can. I call a market that happens to NOW be a chain grocery store (Kroger) with a butcher on site, he said I can order in the mornings and they will bring in what ever I need but I need to order exactly what I need including grade. Does ANYONE have any pointers?
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 5, 2009 22:12:41 GMT -5
What do you mean, "YAY Its a food allergy"??
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Post by RealPitBull on Jan 6, 2009 8:13:21 GMT -5
You think she is sick because of the food? That's a pretty severe reaction for a typical allergy, think maybe it could be something else? Personally, with the swollen face and all, I would have have run her to the vet.
Hope she is feeling better today, post an update when you get a chance.
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angels8
I Love RPBF!
Pitbull Snuggler
Posts: 252
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Post by angels8 on Jan 6, 2009 15:15:20 GMT -5
Bamapitbullmom: The YAY is a typo it should be "yeah its a food allergy"
Well it was less of her face more of her mouth and snout. She will eat kibble for about 2 weeks be ok on it then develop skin issues, horrible gas and diarrhea that is literally water. we take her to the vet and they vet says change food and here we go again, she does better on some than others, but Raw is apparently the way to go. Atleast we know it is the food and not mange/yeast/mites/fleas/ etc etc etc. This is the first time her muzzle,snout,face has ever reacted. Atleast we have a direction as to what it is.
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Post by belovedbullies on Jan 6, 2009 22:30:38 GMT -5
Probiotics for one thing. For another, if my dog had a swollen face and all those other symptoms and my Vet said change foods, I would find another Vet. ?? In my experience, a dog with skin problems, and ear problems is usually one that has food allergy issues. A swollen snout and mouth sounds more like an issue with having been bitten by an insect, perhaps a bee, wasp, or spider. Spiders can give terrible bites that swell. I've never fed raw so I can't say anything about that. My Stevie Wunder had the skin problems AND the ear problems (2 ear surgeries for infections), when my Vet suggested it could be food allergies. We didn't do all the testing, but I started feeding Stevie the Natural Balance Fish & Sweet Potatoe dryfood, and in a short time it all cleared up, his coat came in great and he was fine after that. I had tried the Science Diet for him but he wouldn't eat it. He also had experienced the gas & diarrhea. Also, another thing could be bacteria in a water source. My dogs all drink filtered water only. Also, I wonder if some of the raw foods couldn't have bacteria as well that could be giving her the diarrhea. If I were to feed raw I would want to make sure my dog's food came from either an organic source or a Kosher meat market. Why Kosher? Because they inspect all animals before accepting them for slaughter, no sick, injured, or blemished animals are used. The blood is drained, and all meat is soaked in salt water which kills bacteria. They don't buy animals for slaughter that come from farms that feed anything but all-natural grass fed, no antibiotics, no hormones or anything like that. So the meat is safer for people and animals. Another thing to check out is possible contamination from household products. Could it be that she is possibly licking on the floor or whatever and ingesting something that is poisonous? Can she get to soap or ??? I don't know, just trying to throw out some ideas of things that I've had to investigate myself when I've had similiar problems with any of my dogs over the years. Hope you can find the answers and resolve the issue as I know how anguishing it is when your dog is sick. What is that ingredient : ANIMAL DIGEST ???? Never heard of it, I would be suspicious of what that one might be. Another gal on this forum feeds Blue Buffalo and says her dogs do well with it. Hope it all works out ok for your pit bully girl !! Keep us posted ! beloved bullies in kentucky
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 6, 2009 22:38:02 GMT -5
Is she eating out of a plastic bowl? Some dogs have allergic reactions to the plastic.
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Post by belovedbullies on Jan 7, 2009 23:35:52 GMT -5
Allergies to plastic? Wow, I've never heard of that, thanks for sharing that tidbit. I thought afterwards yesterday that the Vet should really have prescribed something for the diarrhea and obvious gastrointestinal distress. ??? My Vet has said it is ok to give immodium to a dog with diarrhea, but not Pepto bismol. Also, most Vets sell a canned product that is made specifically for dogs with gastrointestinal distress. I used to keep a case on hand in the event it was needed. (With 6 dogs you can go through it pretty quickly). Vets also sell a dry food that is the same as this canned for gastrointestinal problems, maybe it is Science Diet brand? Can't recall, been a while. Would be worth checking out. With all the pet food recalls that have taken place in the past year or so it is getting so a person really needs to be extremely careful what they feed. Oh, and the article about the salmonella in eggs (other topic about feeding) it stated that raw meats, cheeses and even produce can have salmonella. That would be my first thing to suspect if my dog had gastointestinal distress. Wonder why the Vet didn't take a fecal sample and scope it?? That is one thing I would have asked to be done. One thing I learned with pit bullies is that you need to make sure you have a Vet that likes the breed, if not, sometimes Vets won't tell you what you really need to do, or they won't explore avenues to try to find out the root of a problem. Fortunately, and after going to several Vets in this area, the Vet I have now (and the past 4yrs) loves my pit bullies. He hugs them and just loves them to bits, and as I am always willling to go the hundredth extra mile for my pets, he is always willling to work hard to find the root of a problem with me. Well, my heart goes out to Angel8 who is having the problem with her pit bully because I know how anguishing it is when they are sick. Please let us know what is going on now? beloved bullies here in kentucky
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 8, 2009 7:49:40 GMT -5
Lots of dogs have issues when fed out of plastic bowls, those thick, heavy bottomed crock types are popular but I think it's the melamine which creates a problem. I've counseled owners who have reported discoloration on the dogs nose, bumps around the chin and muzzle, etc. It's multiplied when you own a dog that drools. I personally am not a fan of Science Diet but that's just me. Cajun has had a couple of bacterial infections in his gut. Really painful. He also had a UTI at the same time with one of them which was no picnic for my guy. I give pumpkin (canned pumpkin, not the pie filling) for diarrahea, couple spoonfuls and bland down their meals for a couple of days. I also have given Pepto and would prolly not give Immodium just b/c Pepto works fine and tastes a whole lot better to them. If I were you, I would definitely discuss all of the questions you have about treatments and potential diagnoses and testing with your vet. I'm always one to make sure I know as much as possible about what's going on with them and if I feel my vet didn't do a test I felt he should have, I ask about it. Fortunately, my vet rocks and I trust him completely and he usually always explains everything very thoroughly. I agree, it is extremely important to find a bully friendly vet who also is advanced with a great bedside manner. I have used vets in the past who were obviously either prejudiced about pit bulls or just not comfortable with them. I also have seen a vet which isn't aware of breed specific health issues and common ailments within our breed. I finally found a vet early in Cajun's life which met all of my expectations and loves and knows the breed. He is known to sit in the floor getting bathed by my pitty he he comes in the exam room.
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angels8
I Love RPBF!
Pitbull Snuggler
Posts: 252
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Post by angels8 on Jan 8, 2009 11:39:18 GMT -5
My girls have stainless dishes that attach to their crates, We have gone back to the original food we fed her as a puppy and she has cleared right up. No squirts or discoloration, no gas. After talking with the vet she recommends that we let her get adjusted then wean her off processed kibble completely because she cannot be on large breed puppy food forever, but since she is under a year old it is ok for now.
Pepto was a great trick we used at the vet's office I volunteered in, wrap a chewable tab up in a piece of American cheese and ta-da! I have heard of Immodium being too strong for their systems or dogs being very picky about not wanting to take it.
I really need to find a new vet but this lady is who I am stuck with until I relocate to the new house, since it is more "rural" there are less "pursedog" vets there. I have already scoped out a guy about 2 miles away that does house calls and overnite stuff himself. He is a companion animal and livestock vet.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 8, 2009 11:49:21 GMT -5
Why is she on large breed puppy food?
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angels8
I Love RPBF!
Pitbull Snuggler
Posts: 252
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Post by angels8 on Jan 8, 2009 18:16:23 GMT -5
She is younger than a year old and my vet said if she was ok with that food and not rejecting it then to go back to it until we can get her digestive system stable.
It made sense to me. Is there something wrong with that though process, cause if there is I will be looking for another vet.
Thanks!
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 9, 2009 0:02:08 GMT -5
Well, first of all I know you are doing everything with your dog's best interest in mind! My opinion on "large breed" dog food "formulas" include too many supplements and actually are not the best choices for so-called "large breeds" yet are being recommended more and more for dogs over 50 pounds. Large breed dog foods initially are geared towards puppies which will grow to over 60 pounds. Obviously dogs of this size and considerably larger usually have skeletal concerns, we don't want them to grow too fast or with high supplements which may be detrimental down the road. I don't consider pit bulls to be a large breed at all, unless you have a pup which was bred to be extra large. And even then, you likely already will have some issues regardless of diet. www.newmanveterinary.com/large.html
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Post by purplepaws121 on Jan 9, 2009 8:24:53 GMT -5
just to jump in on the "large breed" formulas... The food that my dogs eat is a large breed chicken and rice formula, only reason because when I went to buy the food for the first time, they were out of the regular formula ...the only difference I can tell in my brand is that the large breed has bigger chunks of kibble. even my Shih Tzu eats it...and that's because he turns his nose up at everything else, but loves this food...so I let him have it. ;D OH..and I just noticed that the food I feed already contains flaxseed...can I hurt them by adding more to their meals?
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angels8
I Love RPBF!
Pitbull Snuggler
Posts: 252
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Post by angels8 on Jan 9, 2009 10:44:43 GMT -5
from working with large dogs I know that over supplementation in younger months can lead to poor formation of bones, joints, ligaments and connective tissues leading in rapid growth spurts and leaving them open to future problems. 50 lbs or not I felt more comfortable feeding large breed also as purple has said , because it has larger kibble chunks.
UPDATE on Toshka: I spent 4 hours in the E-Vet last night. 370.00 later and my regular vet has been fired. I came home from work and the house smelled, Tosh had an accident in her crate. I run her into the tub and rinse her off and notice that the water is pinkish brown. I take her out and let her do her business and see how it is. She had a lot of straining but I didn't see anything, when she turns around her whole back end is bloody, i immediately think , oh crap she has gotten parvo somehow. I trotted her inside, rinse her off again wrap her up in the closest set of sheets and off the the E-Vet we go.
We walked into the office and on the white board I see 4 dogs listed as bloody stool and "parvo" next to it, There is a strain of parvo that was spread at petsmart in the past week - CRAP! I do not take my girls to petsmart unless they need a nail trim and Toshka just went for hers. They test her for Parvo it is Negative (wahoooo) they determine it is a food allergy also and has caused Gastroenteritis. They load her up with subq fluids just in case and send me home with anti-biotics.
The E-vet loves her and all large breeds, & thinks Toshka is an absolute lovebug.She kept commenting on how sweet she was even through all the testing. This morning we had no blood (YAY!)
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 9, 2009 13:10:25 GMT -5
How old is Toshka and how much does she weigh?
How can they chalk this up to food allergies? What tests have they done?
None of what you've described here really makes me think she has food allergies. I'm certainly no expert but I do have a dog with allergies and know exactly what he is allergic to and experienced the various "treatments" and testing until we did it the right way.
It sounds like Toshka's diet has been changed quite a bit in a short time which would make it nearly impossible to determine what she is reacting to, if it is allergies to food.
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Post by bubsy on Jan 9, 2009 15:16:47 GMT -5
How old is Toshka and how much does she weigh? How can they chalk this up to food allergies? What tests have they done? None of what you've described here really makes me think she has food allergies. I'm certainly no expert but I do have a dog with allergies and know exactly what he is allergic to and experienced the various "treatments" and testing until we did it the right way. It sounds like Toshka's diet has been changed quite a bit in a short time which would make it nearly impossible to determine what she is reacting to, if it is allergies to food. I agree, I don't think food allergies when I hear acute bloody diarrhea. There certainly may be underlying food allergies...but I think something else has got to be going on here. You may want to send off samples to the GI lab at Texas A&M...they are awesome there, they can test for SIBO, EPI, etc. www.cvm.tamu.edu/gilab/ Good luck, I hope your girl is feeling better ASAP.
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angels8
I Love RPBF!
Pitbull Snuggler
Posts: 252
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Post by angels8 on Jan 12, 2009 10:07:02 GMT -5
Quick update: After a few days of antibiotics we have solid pooie, her ears have cleared up, and her lips are back to normal. I am feeding her a bland diet at the moment still but she has totally perked up.
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