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Post by tank on Feb 16, 2009 0:31:59 GMT -5
"I wasn't going to say anything, but it has been on my heart so here it goes. I placed an ad on here to give away free kitten and I also called a animal agency to help me find it a home. I was told to get it off this site because there is a person(man) on here that seems very nice he gets small dogs and cats then trains his pit bulls with them. PLEASE BE CAREFUL and screen who gets your small animals. This really breaks my heart when I see the pictures of animals thinking that man might get them"
This was in the pet section on my city's craigslist. I already flagged it. "he gets small dogs and cats then trains his pit bulls with them" really? how does one train their pit bulls with smaller animals?
Sorry if I posted this in the wrong place, but this made me so aggravated!
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Post by mcgregor on Feb 16, 2009 8:13:57 GMT -5
The concept of "free" pets should be abolished.... the dogs and cats are used as bait; torn to shreds....it gets the fighting dog primed for the blood lust....it is evil incarnate......neer give away pets for free , you never know who will take them...... This is the reason why we pay so much at the shelters to adopt a pet.......
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 16, 2009 9:18:22 GMT -5
The concept of "free" pets should be abolished.... the dogs and cats are used as bait; torn to shreds....it gets the fighting dog primed for the blood lust....it is evil incarnate......neer give away pets for free , you never know who will take them...... This is the reason why we pay so much at the shelters to adopt a pet....... This doesn't get the dog primed for ANYthing. It's a myth that allowing a dog to kill small animals will make him a better fighting dog. Many dogs given the opportunity will kill small animals - they are predators, after all. Since the 'bait' myth has been popularized, many idiots actually think they are training dogs to be killer fighting dogs by allowing them to kill cats and small dogs. But it does nothing of the sort. A dog being allowed or goaded into attacking other animals is an animal abuse issue and not a Pit Bull issue. Hypothetical Question: if your dog kills a cat, or a squirrel, or other small animal, do you think your dog is now a bloodthirsty killer who will be good at fighting other dogs in the pit?
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Post by andreacassel on Feb 16, 2009 9:33:20 GMT -5
Nope - think they are just fast enough to catch the critter invading their space. All carniverous animals are "natural born killers" that is how they survived in the wild - look at the average house cat - predators in our living rooms. Does this mean that allowing our cats to be cats and catch the bird or mouse or whatever makes them better killers? No, it just makes them what they are - cats - same with dogs - it is just part of what they are. Forcing them to kill is another thing entirely. I hate the "blood myth" and it is one of the most popular ones out their - once your dog tastes blood he is no longer a pet but a killer - PULEASE!!!! Ok - off my soapbox................
And free kittens - always charge something for them - never free.. I kind of believe that some people that do not have to "pay" for something believe it is expenable - some people take better care of things if they have had to "put something out" in order to get them..
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 16, 2009 9:41:25 GMT -5
I agree........anytime I see a 'free to good home ad' I cringe.
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snipe
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 421
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Post by snipe on Feb 16, 2009 10:43:34 GMT -5
lol i gt my dog for free, what a find! but then her surgeries have made her a 3000 dollar dog...oh well.
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Post by valliesong on Feb 16, 2009 11:50:18 GMT -5
It's a horrible, self-perpetuating myth. I'd like to shoot the person that started it. Like Mary said, now we actually do have street fighters who believe it and there are multiple cases every year of it actually happening. It's just sadism at its worst. (Not that dog fighting isn't.) And now animal protection agencies have gotten involved in spreading it. Sigh.
Petfinder should ban the use of the term "bait dog" on their website.
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 16, 2009 11:55:40 GMT -5
It's a horrible, self-perpetuating myth. I'd like to shoot the person that started it. Like Mary said, now we actually do have street fighters who believe it and there are multiple cases every year of it actually happening. It's just sadism at its worst. (Not that dog fighting isn't.) And now animal protection agencies have gotten involved in spreading it. Sigh. Petfinder should ban the use of the term "bait dog" on their website. I think a lot of dogs that are labelled as 'bait' don't even have known histories. People feel better about helping a dog that is a 'bait dog' it seems vs one that has an unknown history or was used in dog fighting.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Feb 16, 2009 12:48:10 GMT -5
This all irks me, too. As for giving pets away for free, I think the general public misses the point of the reasoning. Seedy people can still lay down a large amount to buy or adopt a pet but if the original owner doesn't check them out...vet checks, interviews and home visits and just allow the first person with a $100 take the animal, they will not know where the animal is going.
As for the bait dog thing. Ugh. If I had a nickel. We've gotten tons of emails from folks who've found a stray and if they have as much as a scratch on them, they say they were used as bait. We've seen dogs with scraps or scars which appear to have been from going under fences but to the finder...they are "bait" dogs. I think it's become so prevelant that it's the norm for many of the orgs to just dub them and it isn't fair to the dog and limits it's future.
One of our neighbor's keeps loose dogs and recently her big male Golden x came onto our property and began running the fence line and trying to fence fight with Jasmine and my male foster APBT, Macguyver. I ran the dog off and called her and told her she needs to keep her dog at her house because of this. She said, "Yeah, when those bulldogs taste blood, all they'll want to do is fight." Um...Wah? YOU'R DOG came over HERE doing this while my two are in THEIR FENCE!! If that stupid myth is true then wouldn't Jazz and Mac be killing each other now??
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Post by mcgregor on Feb 16, 2009 14:20:45 GMT -5
Mary " it gets the fighting dog primed for the blood lust"
bait dogs are actually meant to get the fighter into a killing frenzy , that is what I mean by being primed..........
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 16, 2009 15:02:37 GMT -5
Mary " it gets the fighting dog primed for the blood lust"bait dogs are actually meant to get the fighter into a killing frenzy , that is what I mean by being primed.......... Dogs fight. A dog that gets into a fight isn't in a 'killing frenzy'. Dogs fight for self preservation purposes. Using so-called 'bait' animals isn't going to teach a dog to fight, isn't going to turn him into a killing machine, and isn't going to make him a better fighter. Baiting situations are essentially artificial scenarios that elicit normal and natural dog behavior i.e. fighting for self preservation or attacking an animal perceived as prey.
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Post by mcgregor on Feb 16, 2009 16:33:17 GMT -5
mary I respect your intelligence on the subjects but I should have phrased my words better.... well you are right what you say but what I wrote is what the nasty excuse for humans; dogfighters think they are teaching the dogs will get them in a frenzy ....I just loathe dogfighters and would just like to see them burn in hell......
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snipe
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 421
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Post by snipe on Feb 16, 2009 17:05:40 GMT -5
could a "bait" animal also be used in a jenny rig ( it think that's what it's called) for training (as in physical conditioning)? they will put a small animal such as a cat in a cage and then let the dog chase it.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Feb 16, 2009 17:56:44 GMT -5
Personally, I would consider a bait animal as one used as snipe described, a prey animal which illicites the drive on a mill or such.
Think lure coursing...though the "prey" is artificial.
Any thought of anyone using a live animal in this manner disgusts me, as I'm sure it does all of you.
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Post by RealPitBull on Feb 16, 2009 18:22:34 GMT -5
Personally, I would consider a bait animal as one used as snipe described, a prey animal which illicites the drive on a mill or such. Think lure coursing...though the "prey" is artificial. Any thought of anyone using a live animal in this manner disgusts me, as I'm sure it does all of you. Animals were used in this way without the dog actually getting to touch the animal, historically, with the dog on a mill 'running after' an animal in a cage. I think people read old descriptions of conditioning processes and misconstrued or purposefully twisted fact. I have never, ever read any historical training books that suggest you can 'train' a Pit Bull to fight using bait (current, wide-spread terminology) animals.
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Post by mcgregor on Feb 16, 2009 19:49:08 GMT -5
I have never, ever read any historical training books that suggest you can 'train' a Pit Bull to fight using bait (current, wide-spread terminology) animals.
that is what Iam talking about; "current termology"
OUOTE: "A dog that gets into a fight isn't in a 'killing frenzy'' Mary
you misunderstand my posts... this thread is about dogfighters training their dogs to fight , using bait etc , not talking about facts of dogs fighting for the thrill of it.....well yes thats the word the dogfighters instill as bait , the thrill, Iam very well knowledgable about dogs in common but sometimes you get my messages misconscrued....
QUOTE: "Hypothetical Question: if your dog kills a cat, or a squirrel, or other small animal, do you think your dog is now a bloodthirsty killer who will be good at fighting other dogs in the pit? "
The answer is no, its the prey drive that every dog is naturally born with, killing a cat does not make a dog a blood thirsty killer,its an survival instinct in the blood of not only dogs but other carnivorous creatures such as the coyotes, bears , big cats and so on, every creature needs to eat. that prey drive is inherent and a domestic dog merely follows the instinct as a chase enables the drive.... Therefore the dogfighters use prey animals as bait to build up that inherent trait to rev up the fighting dog to excellence in fighting and killing its opponent....
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Post by tank on Feb 16, 2009 20:31:46 GMT -5
The main reason I posted this is to show you guys the closed mindedness towards pit bull owners in this area (and I know it is like this everywhere.) True, there is some dog fighting that goes on around here, and there are a lot of hillbilly "backyard breeders" who breed pit bulls and contribute to the huge amount of pit bulls in our shelters. And yes, people shouldn't give animals up for free because there are a lot of people out there who can't afford animals and shouldn't have them because they just want a "free" animal, and there are real people out there who bait. BUT, it seems to me that this person with poor grammar (don't they all on craigslist) seems to think that pit bull owners are only out to bait, and fight dogs, and that makes me sick. Because my dog doesn't look 100% pit bull and I work at a grooming place for dogs, I get a lot of ignorant people who flat out tell me in casual conversation that they hate pit bulls and people who own them. I really think this person just posted to stir up trouble, because there seems to be a lot of that going on in the pet section in my city. Yes, I stalk it, mainly because I work in a place where I see a lot of dogs during the day, and I would like to think that if someone posted a missing dog, etc, that I could someday help them if someone came in with said dog etc. Also, I have set up a dog in need of a home with a customer already from looking at craigslist.
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Post by zoe on Feb 16, 2009 21:48:37 GMT -5
Something else to consider with placing a 'free' pet ad, not sure if it's myth or fact, but I have read that people will take them and sell them to research facilities. Not that I'm against animal testing, having a child with CF, but I'd rather it not be on an animal I thought was being placed in a loving home.
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Post by DiamondTiger on Feb 17, 2009 5:45:05 GMT -5
Again, Snoopy comes to mind here in this thread. It really irks me when people get on the heated topic of "bait"/"bating" and training dogs to fight. (Not you all, but people who perpetuate the myths.) Snipe I believe it was, made a good point about a bait animal being live prey that is put in a cage to illicit a reaction (prey drive). Back some years ago, my ex-boyfriend decided to take up squirrel hunting. He wanted to train a little hound that we had rescued from the local shelter to sight and track for him. Neither of us knew the first thing about training a hunting dog, so we started researching and talking to people who had been doing it for years. Building a device that would hold a live squirrel and allow it to run through trees (much like a hamster habitat and tunnels/tubes), then allowing the dog to "catch" the "bait" was the most suggested method of training. We never trained the dog to hunt. No way could we torture a cute and innocent little squirrel like that. Anyway, the point is... A LOT of dogs are trained this way, by using live "bait" to encourage certain behaviors/reactions. So when someone opens up the subject of cats and smaller dogs being used to train fight dogs... rather than sit and beat my head against a brick wall trying to talk to folks who think they already know it all... I throw in all the other breeds that are trained to hunt/take down game and how they are trained to do this. I also point out the fact that all of these breeds are loved by many and do very well in homes with children and out in public with various strangers and even other animals and that there is no difference in a well bred, socialized & trained hunting breed and a well bred socialized & trained pit. Animal aggression does not = human aggression. (People usually shut up after that. I don't know if it's because they see my point of if it's because they get tired of hearing me say it. I like to think it's because they finally 'GET IT'.)
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Post by mcgregor on Feb 17, 2009 7:08:26 GMT -5
Quote Tank: The main reason I posted this is to show you guys the closed mindedness towards pit bull owners
Absolutely what my posts are referring to; bait dogs being used by nasty dogfighters... tank was talking about the horrors of bait dogs in common .......
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