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Post by RealPitBull on Aug 5, 2009 13:08:10 GMT -5
I'm on a list called CLICK-L_ABAT on (anyone can join if interested, it is normally a GREAT educational resource) which is a clicker and behavior modification list. A 'trainer/researcher/not really sure what she is person' is on this list spouting such drivel against Pit Bulls and bull breeds in general that I am about to burst a blood vessel in my head. In the interest of responding to her nonsense with a professional, courteous post, I'm venting here for a moment! There was a thread about this woman, Alexandra Semyonova, on this forum before, discussing her website that has some weird, seemingly-anti Pit Bull quotes on it - as well as her apparent record of joining lists only to talk smack about our lovely breed. Well, now I've heard it from the horses mouth and she is very obviously pro BSL and anti Pit Bull. She had the audacity to suggest that people who like Pit Bulls could just find those same 'positive traits' in some other dog - that there is no need for 'aggressive' breeds to exist. She also doesn't 'get' why people are so up in arms about BSL. The bad thing about this woman is that she is very knowledgeable - her website has tons of general dog info that is scientifically valid. It is really baffling to me that she is SO against a 'type' of dog (she talks about bull breeds in general, not specifically Pit Bulls). She also pulled out the 'good ole' dogsbite.org to back up her claims against the breed, as well. I want to do a search under her name to see what else she has out there - she mentioned the Dogwise.com forums; might be public material on there. I wish I could post her tirade on the forum, but it is intellectual property that cannot be reprinted. We come across a lot of anti breed stuff in our day to day lives with these dogs, but it has been a while since my hackles have been raised so high by someone who SHOULD know better.
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Post by OurPack on Aug 5, 2009 13:10:42 GMT -5
I hate this when I see it with animal advocates even or "good" trainers. It's scary to me!
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Post by RealPitBull on Aug 5, 2009 14:41:33 GMT -5
The sad thing is, I know this person isn't going to be swayed or educated. She's 'educated' and 'scientific' - heck she wrote her own paper proving her point, uses Dogsbite.org and Animal People as her sources. And has her own book out.
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Post by michele5611 on Aug 5, 2009 15:09:14 GMT -5
Right on Mary. I just went and re-read her article on "Agressive Dogs" (basically a dissertation on how evil pitbulls are) and it left me feeling bitter, frustrated and saddened. It's amazing how with all her education she spouts the same stereotypical irrational garbage as everyone else.
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Post by RealPitBull on Aug 5, 2009 15:26:31 GMT -5
Right on Mary. I just went and re-read her article on "Agressive Dogs" (basically a dissertation on how evil pitbulls are) and it left me feeling bitter, frustrated and saddened. It's amazing how with all her education she spouts the same stereotypical irrational garbage as everyone else. OMG if that made you feel bitter, you should have seen what she posted on this list. It is SO FRUSTRATING when a seemingly rational, educated DOG person who promotes science and fact uses the likes of DogsBite.org to prove a point that Pit Bulls should be outlawed. I mean, how much more ironic can you get?!??
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Post by RealPitBull on Aug 5, 2009 15:27:19 GMT -5
What's got my hackles up as well, is that this person's boook is being promoted around on the dog lists, and I don't want her anti Pit Bull verbiage to start seeping into the general mindset of impressionable trainers and owners.
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maryc
Full Fledged Poster
Posts: 206
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Post by maryc on Aug 5, 2009 17:02:29 GMT -5
I remember her from a list I was on I was so irate after reading some of her posts. She is one scary person for sure!!
Mary
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Post by loverocksalot on Aug 5, 2009 19:30:23 GMT -5
I just came across and article that was titled Dont trust your pit bull not to fight. Ironically the person who commented on the article references the lady you are speaking about.
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Post by RealPitBull on Aug 6, 2009 7:42:36 GMT -5
To make matters worse, apparently the list is on moderation now so only select messages are getting through. This person's material is being unchallenged as of right now, and she is getting people 'thinking' - for instance, I just read a post from a person who is now 'ruminating' on the fact that hmmm since Pit Bulls are dog aggressive, who's to say they won't start going after children, and in a rescue context who is to say anyone could place any dog-aggressive dog safely.
You have to understand my reason here for being so worked up - I've been on this list for probably close to 5 years, and it has been a fantastic behavioral resources for me - the list is full of behaviorist-minded folks who avoid the 'its genetics' sort of mindset. Out of no where comes this person who just starts rambling off reasons why Pit Bulls are a breed that should die out through BSL, and NOW she is going unchallenged.
I think this woman is DANGEROUS. Her basic dog info is VERY GOOD - she appeals to the modern, thinking dog trainer, and her research is very up to date. Until you start reading deeper, and you start to notice that she is very opposed to anything other than what she considers a 'normal' dog - a dog that gets along with other dogs no matter what, and she considers anything that deviates to be 'pathological'. She is intermingling dog-aggression with human-aggression, and doesn't point to breeds created for human-aggro tendencies; she has a vendetta against fighting breeds.
I normally don't get so worked up, because hell, after almost 15 years of this sort of work, it gets to the point where you have to turn a deaf ear to nay-sayers and try to focus on doing positive educational work. But there is something about this woman that is very unnerving to me. What's even more unnerving is that others seem to be somewhat mesmerized by her.
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Post by RealPitBull on Aug 6, 2009 9:15:19 GMT -5
OMG!!! The comments on that article!!! Like this one:
Sandra wrote on Jun 29, 2009 8:20 PM:
There you have it folks - we are all dog fighters pretending to be animal advocates. RIIIIIIIIIIIGHT. And this person makes a bold statement regarding the motivation of Pit Bulls as predatory. REALLY? How much you want to bet she has NEVER done any behavior mod with an aggressive Pit Bull let alone tried to discover what is the actual underlying motivation for DA in the breed (it is often fear-based with the dog attempting to bring distance between himself and the other dog - NOT some need or desire to kill, as in predation.)
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Post by DiamondTiger on Aug 6, 2009 9:37:39 GMT -5
Is that so? Is she saying that pit bulls and other fighting breeds are not dogs? If so, then what are they? Co's the 2 I have right here with me sure look like dogs to me. I'd have to say she got one thing right in this statement... I am interested in the dogfighting arena... I am interested in SQUASHING IT and making it history.
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Post by legacy23 on Aug 6, 2009 12:57:02 GMT -5
WOW....just wow.....i am upset that people so intelligent and informed on dog behaviour cannot see that there is a difference between DA and HA....and that it is perfectly fine to have a dog that doesn't like other dogs.....it would be the same as killing all the people in the world that didn't like other people......that doesn't make much sense either
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Chloe
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Posts: 433
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Post by Chloe on Aug 11, 2009 16:19:56 GMT -5
Ouch! That kinda hurts, the whole dog fighting thing. My husband and I are big pittie lovers and we want nothing more then to see the day when dog fighting DOESNT exsist.
It is frustrating to see someone who is so educated in the dog world have such uneducated views of Bully breeds.
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Post by pitunia on Aug 11, 2009 20:46:34 GMT -5
Most trainers I know love the terriers. They are a working dog and want to please their owner. Sad, this person is not open-minded but then again I am scared of Golden Retrievers, Chows, and any dog under 20 lbs.
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Post by pistis on Aug 11, 2009 20:59:37 GMT -5
She does realize if it wasn't pit bulls, people would just put some other dog in their spot right? And then another, and another, and so on.
She says get rid of ALL fighting breeds; well ok, get rid of them- you know what's gonna happen next though right? PEOPLE are going to just find another breed. If they have to settle for a pomeranian, I bet they will. I know they will. Hell, they settled for CANARIES to use for fighting in one place. There's an article about it here on the forum. How 'bout we get rid of Canaries as well, start on that next.... Holy sh*&, what a dumb woman, and she's "EDUCATED"?? Nononono...
She's definately a woman though- sounds EMOTIONAL to me thorugh and through. You say no one has challenged her, why don't some of us? Is there no way to do that? Tell her to put her hormones in check, and do her research. Don't get all hot and bothered until she has a real reason to? Give her some facts and why dogsbite.org is a biased place to get information. She may choose not to believe it, but maybe those people "contemplating" her words might?
I wonder if she had a bad experience as a child so now "All dangerous dogs" are evil in her eyes; no if, ands, or buts. I just don't see an educated woman about dogs, who you say is right on with everything else, can be so gung-ho about something so terrible. Sounds fishy to me. Like she HAD to have had a bad experience that scared her or something. I'm amazed. Too bad aggression never solves anything. Because it's people like her that made me want to punch them in the face, or shake them, or something to being them back to reality. Woosa (I'm rubbing my ears)
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Post by DiamondTiger on Aug 12, 2009 6:46:05 GMT -5
I wonder if she had a bad experience as a child so now "All dangerous dogs" are evil in her eyes I totally get what you're saying here... but the way this is worded is almost an admission that our dogs are dangerous and they're not.
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Post by pistis on Aug 12, 2009 12:55:50 GMT -5
I see your point. That's why it's in quotes though, I was referencing that lady, but next time i'll put her/whoever's name with it if I'm referring back to them. That, and I just realized she never said "dangerous." I thought she had...although I'm sure "fighting and "dangerous" go hand-in-hand in her mind.
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Chloe
I Love RPBF!
Posts: 433
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Post by Chloe on Aug 15, 2009 22:21:19 GMT -5
She's definately a woman though- sounds EMOTIONAL to me thorugh and through. You say no one has challenged her, why don't some of us? Is there no way to do that? Tell her to put her hormones in check, and do her research. Don't get all hot and bothered until she has a real reason to? Give her some facts and why dogsbite.org is a biased place to get information. She may choose not to believe it, but maybe those people "contemplating" her words might? quote] I think Real stated earlier that only select msg's are getting through, maybe this means that they pick and choose what msg's actually get posted and anyone who challenges her in a msg, isnt getting posted. That would be so very conveinent for them wouldnt it!?! People like her make it so people like us & our dogs, take 2 steps forward and 10 steps back, very frustrating!
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