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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 21, 2007 14:55:56 GMT -5
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Post by valliesong on Dec 21, 2007 22:48:04 GMT -5
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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 22, 2007 11:46:15 GMT -5
Thanks Val, yes I heard about it. I think the info/message in general is good, even though I have not entirely made up my mind about whether or not chaining should actually be banned. (FYI, I am 100% opposed to chaining.)
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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 30, 2007 12:51:59 GMT -5
McGregor posted information about a bill in California that sounds interesting. This is a quote from that post. It sounds very interesting and I'd like to read the actual bill. Anyone know the bill name/number? HI...dogatecouch.... I live in California and we now have a law that just passed this year, it is called the "tethered law" ....... people got together and fought for this law and won... you can get many dog lovers to sign a petition and advocate the evils of chained dogs......its a terrible thing for dogs to be tied up all day 24 hours a day ;even with no human contact etc, no food or water....get as many people together from all over your state......It can be done!............. This law reguires dogs to be unchained and they must have water and food available, although dogs can be chained for three hours a day , no longer.......
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Post by mcgregor on Dec 30, 2007 14:29:50 GMT -5
Governor Schwarzenegger Signs Legislation to Outlaw Inhumane Dog ... Governor Schwarzenegger announced today the signing of SB 1578 by Senator Alan Lowenthal (D-Long Beach) that would prohibit dog owners ...
gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/4100 ยท Cached page
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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 31, 2007 8:19:06 GMT -5
Thank you, I'm going to check this out as soon as I have a moment to breathe! LOL Hectic time of the year!
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Post by bullymommy25 on Jan 6, 2008 21:50:53 GMT -5
Why don't people know that dogs are social animals?
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Post by bullymommy25 on Jan 6, 2008 22:06:50 GMT -5
Thought I'd add: Keeping them in a fenced yard 12 months a year is no better. In Maplewood, New Jersey, the Santos family keeps a resident dog named Teddy. Teddy lives in the back yard all year round, with no communication from anyone. The only time the family "deals" with him is when they go to the garage, and they shoo him away then. He is not fed as much as he should be, and goes without water for long periods of time. His ribs are visable under his coat. I began feeding Teddy after moving nearby. I snuck him cans of food and Beggin Strips until Mr. Santos threatened me. It was winter, and cold at this point, so I had no choice but to get involved. Teddy had nowhere to rest but on the concrete, so I took a rug from my apartment and put it in their back yard. The next day it was removed. I don't like to call the authorities on people without true reason, and this situation was life or death. Teddy could freeze to death, or at the very least, develop arthritis from sleeping on cold concrete! I called the ASPCA, and within days, an empty dog igloo with no bedding was in the yard. Teddy didn't even understand he was supposed to go in it! I called several more times, as he was out in heavy snow, and he had no food for several days. The man was fined, and his son began to take "revenge". My car tires were slashed and punctured with nails, my apartment was hit with eggs and bottles. But Teddy made it through that winter. I went back home to another area of New Jersey, and I can only pray that Teddy is okay. The man rejected my offer of purchasing Teddy, and because I was a young student and still living under my parent's support, I had to go. It is soooo heartbreaking to see these type of situations. I have NEVER met a bad dog, only awful owners. Our dogs are what we make them, and sometimes, we do not deserve them. I hope that one day there will be laws that protect the rights and dignity of ALL living creatures.
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Post by valliesong on Jan 7, 2008 3:59:43 GMT -5
A lot of people around here also keep their dog in the basement or garage 24/7. Sometimes they get complaints about the dog barking or not having shelter, so they just move it. Other times neighbors never knew the dog existed because they never saw the animal outside.
Slightly better are the people who keep the dog in the kitchen or one other room in the house, UNLESS it is a room where they family spends A LOT of time.
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Post by RealPitBull on Jan 7, 2008 8:28:51 GMT -5
I have no idea why people who keep dogs isolated with minimal food, water and shelter even have a dog at all! Is it because they are sadistic and cruel and like to see animal suffer? This is something that truly baffles me. In the cold weather, I think about animals without shelter and it seriously upsets me. I can't imagine having a dog in a yard freezing to death and chosing to ignore that while I was comfy and warm inside my house. It truly makes me sick.
The laws governing care of dogs are not sufficient. When animal control receives calls in regard to cases like the one Bullymommy mentioned, they should have the ability to do something about it. I would rather see a dog humanely euthanized then freeze or starve to death.
I have had experience trying to get AC to do something about dogs left in the elements and it is next to impossible to get something done. The case specifically I am thinking about was a Siberian Husky who was left chained to a dog house - half of his ears were chewed away because of fly bites. I had to call numerous times to even get AC to look at the dog, and they ended up doing nothing about the situation anyway.
I am not necessarily for MORE laws, but the laws we do have nee to be revamped and enforced.
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Post by pettoprincess88 on Jan 22, 2008 15:00:04 GMT -5
that was sad bullymommy25, i would had fed that dog too. those people are impossible! gosh evil! This is what makes me sad...you know its not right, but there arent strong enough laws to really damage a person like that or at least take the dog away. i know dogs who are chained up, and now in texas they passed a new law about tethering! so if my aunt dosent shape up... i dont care if they are angry at me too, im gonna report them. one of her dogs is a pit, untrained but is the sweetest unless u are a stranger on the other side of the fence of course. im tired of seeing him chained up all day everyday in the cold.... he tied up because he escapes and plus kills chickens...and they have lots of chickens. i dont think they can because its a residential area. i have reported them before but, they just move the chickens to a friend and get them back later........ so whats the point? it makes me mad! something needs to be done!
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Post by pettoprincess88 on Jan 22, 2008 15:01:15 GMT -5
i gave them information from the unchain your dog.org the other day. so if they dont comply I will report them again.
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Post by valliesong on Jan 30, 2008 17:50:08 GMT -5
AC in our area is pretty good about responding, but really have to prioritize cases because they are soooo overworked, and now the Humane Society of Berks County is refusing to do animal control for anything but the city of Reading, so everything else falls on the Animal Rescue League of Berks County. So that leaves about 4 or less officers to do all the animal control for a large and pretty populated county.
The big thing that limits our officers is the vague wording of the laws and their lax nature. What is "sufficient shelter" or other vague terms? 24/7 chaining/penning is also legal here. I believe the chain has to be 1.5 times the length of the dog's body. They are supposed to have food and water. Cruelty cases with cats are even harder to prosecute, and animal control has to police livestock as well. It's crazy!
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Post by valliesong on Oct 6, 2008 23:37:41 GMT -5
Bumping this due to upcoming cold weather!
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Post by RealPitBull on Oct 7, 2008 7:57:55 GMT -5
Thank you!!
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Post by coolhandjean on Oct 7, 2008 13:26:38 GMT -5
Chaining is no different than other other form of containment. A chain is a tool.
Someone who neglects their dog is going to continue to neglect their dog whether chaining is allowed or not. Worse case scenario, when they outlaw chaining that person will just let their dog run loose all over the neighborhood.
Like any form of containment, there is a proper and improper way about it.
All of my dogs have chain spots. Each chain is 15 ft. long, which gives them a 30ft. radius. They each have a 5 gallon water bowl, and get fed daily (no free feeding). Each dog is placed, so, that they have enough shade in the summer, and enough sun in the winter. Each dog is also placed, so, that there isn't anything they can get hung up on. They get checked on regularly to make sure they haven't found a way to get tangled. They have some dirt spots, but they still have plenty of grass as well. They each have a side that they tend to use the bathroom on, and lawn mowing usually gets rid of the waste, but in the winter, I clean it up. Each dog has a nice dog house as well and we had cedar shaving to the inside for bedding.
Cuddles lived the majority of her life in a pen. Now I can't ask her, "Which do you prefer your chain set-up or your pen?" However, going by her behavior, she seems to enjoy the chain spot, more than she liked the pen.
Also, I took care of my friend's lab mix this summer, and she brought over his kennel. It was probably 15 x 10 (not 100% on the dimensions). That isn't much space when you add the water bowl, the food, and the dog house. I can honestly say I felt kind of bad for the dog. All the grass was completely gone out of it within two weeks. I cleaned his pen once a day, and even then, the poo seemed to just take over the space he had left.
It is, also, not always an option to keep a dog inside. I live in a very small house. It has two bedrooms, and we have three adults living here. So, no extra room to put crates in, though, even the crate idea, I don't see how a tiny crate inside the house where a dog isn't free to use the bathroom is seen as more humane than a chain set-up. Don't get me wrong. I understand that many people live in areas where there isn't much of an option, and a crate is the only safe option for them, but if someone uses a crate instead of a chain, it doesn't make them any more or less responsible than the person who uses a chain.
I was once against chaining as well, but I have seen that there is a right and a wrong way to chain. I have seen people neglect a dog in all forms of containment. It has to do with responsible containment and ownership, not the former of containment itself.
As for the dog being a social animal, my dogs still get plenty of socialization with us. The outside dogs get just as much as the two inside dogs. I walk them all daily, and play with them, and spend time with them.
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Post by valliesong on Oct 7, 2008 18:04:06 GMT -5
I lived in an apartment with less than 400 sq. ft. with another adult and up to four dogs. It's always an option to have your dogs spend time inside with the family.
Crating is not a 24/7 containment tool. It is a training and management tool used in conjunction with other forms of containment (house, fenced yard, leash, etc.). Chaining should be used as a management tool, but it is too often used 24/7.
I DO use a cable to contain my dog who can climb the fence, but he is only outside to go to the bathroom or while I am out. That is using a chain as a management tool. It should not be a living status.
PS - Daily removal of feces from an outdoor dog's area is the best way to prevent fly bites, skin infections, and maggot infestation of cuts, regardless of whether they are chained or penned.
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Post by coolhandjean on Oct 7, 2008 18:37:42 GMT -5
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the dogs being inside. One of my dogs, Cuddles, hates to come inside. She whines and paces the whole time. So, for her own sake, I don't bring her in very often. The others have been in the house a few times, but I'd rather just play with them outside. They get more exercise that way, plus I tend to pay more attention to a dog if it's outside. If it's inside, I have a bad habit of ignoring them, sad but true, because I find "other things" to do, and figure it's not as essential to watch them.
To me, chaining isn't a 24/7 containment tool, either. They get more than enough time off the chain. It's not like they are at the chain spots all day everyday, and never get walked or exercised.
My mentioning not having the room, I meant that I can't let them all in at night, and let them all just sleep in crates, because I have no room for the crates. If I had a bigger house or if my boyfriend's son moved out, I would invest in some crates, and all the dogs (except Cuddles) would come in and sleep in the crates at night. Currently that isn't an option. No room.
If you found a way to make room, congrats. I am happy you can. For me, it's not an option.
Like any law, if anti-tethering legislation passes, the Responsible owner pays the price. The Irresponsible owner will keep chaining their dog improperly. If they get caught and fined, they will probably just let their dog run loose. If someone buys them a fence or pen, the dog will still be mistreated or neglected. I think the current laws just need to be enforced more, instead of just adding another law to the list.
I haven't had any problems with my dog's poop habits and clean up. They don't poop all that often (They poop twice a day, one of those is on the walk), and not that much poop gets piled up. I keep their spaces plenty clean. They haven't had any problems so far with any of the things you mentioned, but thanks for the concern.
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Post by RealPitBull on Oct 8, 2008 7:24:41 GMT -5
If you have a rescue/sanctuary and dogs have to live in kennels, that's one thing. But to me, pet dogs shouldn't have to live on chains or in kennel runs. I'm very anti chaining, anti kennel-living, and anti-yard living. I know some people can 'do it right' and their dogs are healthy and well-cared for, but it is still nothing I'd ever advocate for.
I'm not necessarily a proponent of anti-tethering laws, however. Still on the fence about that. I believe education on proper care and management is the key, as well as better enforcement of cruelty laws (or stronger laws in this regard). One of my RPB volunteers lives next to someone who keeps their dog chained outside 24-7, with minimal contact, exercise, and the poor thing is just basically neglected. I recognize that this sort of owner could just as easily neglect their dog as badly if the dog were in a kennel or yard. AC has been called, but nothing has been done. Because the dog has 'water' and 'shelter' and is not starving. The dog IS very apparently neglected, however. This is the sort of thing that kills me. I also don't know that this sort of owner would necessarily care to be educated. Why they have a dog I'll never know.
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