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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 20, 2007 14:44:14 GMT -5
No exhaustive studies have been conducted to prove which breed has the strongest bite pressure. The very few small studies that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several breeds showed pressure PSI to be considerably lower than some wild estimates that have been made. Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit Bull had the LOWEST PRESSURE PSI OF THE THREE. The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull in the vid was 235. The highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328. Here is the video from Dr. Barr's program Dangerous Encounters: Other recent research (2009), by Dr. Elis published in the Journal of Anatomy showed that size and shape of head was an idicator of bite pressure - the Mastiff has so far tested with the strongest bite pressure, at 552 pounds. Dr. Stanley Coren states, in his Psychology Today blog, that not only does motivation of the dog play a factor in how hard it bites, but what part of the mouth is used (front or back) makes a difference as well. Here is the link to Dr. Coren's full article: www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201005/dog-bite-force-myths-misinterpretations-and-realitiesAs you can see, it would be very difficult to make a truly accurate conclusion about bite pressure and which breed definitively has the highest considering all the variables at play: size (and variation in each breed, in which some breeds is extreme), motivation (what's driving the dog to bite and whether the dog is motivated or even has learned to use full strength), how the dog bites and what part of the mouth is used, and 400+ breeds of dog worldwide that would potentially need to be tested. It is logical to assume that the largest dog, with the widest head, biting with a full mouth that incorporates the back of the jaw, coupled with the strongest motivation to bite hard (and a means to test that the dog truly is biting as hard as it possibly can), is the dog with the (potentially) highest bite pressure. It is my opinion that this could never be a "breed thing", and will always boil down to individual dogs. |
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Post by bigbullwill on Jan 11, 2008 20:44:23 GMT -5
test like that really don't prove anything because you don't know
what type of pitbull was tested, whether it was game breed or
house pet, and the same goes with the other dogs that were
tested
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Post by RealPitBull on Jan 12, 2008 8:39:08 GMT -5
Personally, I do not believe any definitive tests or studies could be conducted to prove which breed has the strongest bite pressure. With 400+ breeds of dog, it'd be a humongous task. Even conducting a really thorough study to figure out exactly how strong the jaws of Pit Bulls are would be daunting: consider the huge range in size and shape of the breed, and then factor in the dog's psychological state when testing. What's driving the dog to bite (fear, stress-levels, prey drive, play drive, etc) can cause different bite levels. Also, some dogs, with strong bite inhibition, may never be pushed to the point of biting to their full potential. It isn't like you can tell a dog, "Ok, bite down as strongly as you can".
The whole idea of "strongest jaws" and bite pressure is absurd to me.
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mageedog
Member
Yes, he is a Pitbull. He would love it if you pet him!
Posts: 42
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Post by mageedog on May 2, 2008 20:42:04 GMT -5
The strongest jaw concept IS absurd. Anyone who knows Pits will tell you it's not the bite, it's will and desire to hold. Which of course brings us to the next ridiculous part.....the "locking jaw" :eyeroll:
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Post by bullymommy25 on May 3, 2008 17:00:13 GMT -5
it's the stubborn streak of a terrier and the strength of a bulldog, not to mention a heart of gold. i'd like anyone to see how delicately Stella "lips" treats from my five year old's hands. I get sooooo tired of people and these bite pressure reports... we all know, strong dogs can bite you hard. It's either doomsayers trying to find "THE MOST DANGEROUS DOG"  or insecure losers trying to PROVE that their dog is the toughest (gag). either way, I don't care how hard my dog can bite, because she doesn't care how hard I bite. She's my buddy. |
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Post by robc on May 12, 2008 22:12:21 GMT -5
I agree......I could care less how hard my dogs bite......I am more concerned about how long there tongues are......thats what they use the most by licking me and giving people kisses......rob
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Post by andone707 on Jun 4, 2008 2:13:37 GMT -5
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Post by pitpupmom on Dec 15, 2008 16:22:05 GMT -5
I would say that is just an individual dog, not the breed. Not all rotties have that much bite pressure, although I've known 2 rotties who could break the railroad ties and ate thru 2x4s. But these dogs were spazzy.
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Post by RuffMuttK9z on Jan 2, 2009 19:48:48 GMT -5
I think that MythBusters should do this.
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Post by RealPitBull on Jan 3, 2009 8:20:55 GMT -5
I think that MythBusters should do this. Yeahhhhh!!! Let's all write them. ;D |
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snipe
I Love RPBF!
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Post by snipe on Feb 7, 2009 22:00:10 GMT -5
I think that MythBusters should do this. Yeahhhhh!!! Let's all write them. ;D ok i seriously will.  |
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Post by tank on Mar 5, 2009 10:15:54 GMT -5
I had a customer come in with a 140 lbs Rottweiler and tell me how hard her dog's bite pressure was. She was saying it out of myth not because she actually knew first hand. I left that one alone since the girl was pure love and her owner also told me she was really good at growling and mouthing but never biting, she was taught good bite inhibition as a wee pup. Dogs that don't growl when they are unhappy are the ones I watch out for. (When I cut their nails etc) On that same day a 15 pound pug bit me without the slightest warning lol. I laugh because the thing had no teeth. He was also blind and deaf and a perfect sphere!
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Post by adoptapitbull on Apr 12, 2010 8:57:40 GMT -5
OMG I just had an argument with a friend over this. He has 2 GSDs and thinks that everyone is afraid of GSDs the same as Pits. Yeah freaking right! Anyway, he said Pits had the highest pressure and he claimed to have read it from an AKC test that tested a large number from each breed and then averaged them. I have yet to find that "study".
Anyway, how about the difference between show quality and working quality/pet quality dogs. This isn't as big of a deal with Pits, but look at some Spaniels and other breeds. The show quality is almost a complete 180 from the pet quality. So, they're the same breed, but they're bred for completely different reasons. How do we determine which is to be tested? And how do we determine the difference from a purebred 40lb Pit and a purebred 80lb Pit? What if their numbers greatly differ? Then what? And like Mary said, "OK, Fido, bite down as hard as you can!" isn't going to work. I got bit my one of my boys during a fight. It was my fault to put my hands in there and I know it. But, if they were biting their hardest, I'd have more than a few little puncture marks, right? They do self-handicap and practice inhibition, so how on Earth would we know if the bite truly is their hardest?
I ended up completely telling off my friend and did bring up the NatGeo study to show that in that test, Pits were the lowest. Wrong information like that is only going to make people fear Pits even more!
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Post by maryellen on Apr 12, 2010 9:26:54 GMT -5
actually i think that the hyena has the strongest psi bite.. i remember nat geo doing a study on it and said the hyena had the strongest bite... so does the great white shark...lol
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Post by adoptapitbull on Apr 12, 2010 9:32:54 GMT -5
It's the crocodile you really have to worry about!
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Post by catstina on May 5, 2010 21:07:06 GMT -5
adoptapitbull, So does that mean that gator mouth pits have the strongest bites?
Disclaimer: I am JUST KIDDING! I just hate these stupid "gator mouth" "Pure Bred Blue Nose" "Red Nose/Blue Nose Cross" and all that BS. I just think it's hilarious the way people think these are legitimate breeds
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Post by RealPitBull on May 6, 2010 7:17:17 GMT -5
Christina, LOL!  |
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Post by adoptapitbull on May 6, 2010 9:37:27 GMT -5
lol Probably! Heck, I bet we could start our own rumor and people would believe it!
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Post by catstina on May 13, 2010 21:59:40 GMT -5
Sadly, they would believe it!
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Post by RealPitBull on May 19, 2010 7:49:42 GMT -5
Interesting article on bite pressure from Stanley Coren:
I was working on a paper which dealt with dog bites and wanted to include some mention of the strength of dog bites for particular breeds. I have been at several conferences dealing with dog behavior and have heard a number of veterinarians quote that the bite force of a Rottweiler (and sometimes a pit bull) is approximately 2000 pounds per square inch. Since dog behavior, not dog physiology, is my expertise, I tended to accept those statements without too much analysis (except of course, to marvel at the strength of the dog's jaw). However this time I thought about these numbers more closely and began to doubt what I had heard.
Let's put these numbers into a meaningful context. Imagine a bite force of 2000 pounds. To achieve this, suppose that we had a dog's jaw and wanted to press the upper portion down with this force, it would require our putting a pressure equivalent to the weight of a subcompact automobile (like a smaller Toyota or Hyundai) on the top jaw. That simply did not make sense. For one thing I doubted that the bone structure of the dog's jaw could withstand such pressures.
So where did this number-a bite strength of 2000 pounds for the Rottweiler-come from? It turns out that there has not been a lot of research in this area, and most of it has been done using indirect and laboratory measures. An example is the experimental work done by a team headed by Jennifer Lynn Ellis of Guelph University in Canada (published in the Journal of Anatomy in 2008). This team used two methods to measure bite strength. The first tested live dogs, which were anesthetized and had their jaw muscles electrically stimulated. The second was more theoretical and is based computations made using the architecture of the skulls and jaws of deceased dogs. One thing that comes out very strongly from their measures is that the bite force varies depending upon where in the mouth you measure it. For example in one German Shepherd the measure of bite force in the front portion of the jaw was 170 pounds while in the rear of the jaw (where the lever principle works most strongly) it was 568 pounds. This is a long way from 2000 pounds. So where did that figure come from?
If you look at the way the data is presented, the researchers are not reporting their results in pounds of force, but rather in a force measure called Newtons. An average of the results of the inner bite strength of the 20 dogs in this study does come out to be around 2000 Newtons. Perhaps that is where the number came from. However if that is the case then reports of 2000 pounds of pressure are greatly in error. A Newton actually equals a 0.22 pounds of force or a bit more than a fifth of a pound. So a 2000 Newton force is actually approximately equal to a 450 pound force. This is a lot of force, the equivalent our putting a pressure equivalent to the weight of two football linemen on the top jaw, but a lot less than 2000 pounds of pressure. Could it be that the estimate of the bite strength of the dog has been reported so widely and so wrongly is because the people reading the reports have misread the units of measure, assuming pounds for Newtons? That would at least might explain where the frequently reported numbers come from.
Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic, for a TV special called Dangerous Encounters: Bite Force, measured bite forces of several different creatures using a more direct measure. Basically he placed a force measuring device on a bite protection sleeve (or on a pole for larger more dangerous beasts) and provoked the animals to bite it. Because of the way that these measures are taken, they actually reflect the bite force closer to the front of the jaw, so they might not measure the maximum force possible. The strength of the bite will also depend upon just how provoked and angry the dog was during the measurement. In any event, for the three dogs measured (an American Pit Bull, a German Shepherd and a Rottweiler) the average bite strength was 269 pounds of pressure, with the Rottweiler topping the group with 328 pounds of bite pressure. Compare these to the bite strength of lions and white sharks which are both around 600 pounds, or the bone crushing hyena at around 1000 pounds, or more shocking, the Nile alligator which comes in at just under 2500 pounds.
In more recent research (published in 2009 in the Journal of Anatomy), Dr. Ellis and her team were able to show that the size of the animal and the shape of its jaw predicted bite strength. The larger the dog and the dog's head, and the wider the jaw, the higher the bite force turned out to be. The dog breed with the largest head and widest mouth is the Mastiff, so it is perhaps not surprising that it has been recently measured as having a bite strength of 552 pounds-just shy of the bite force that the lion has. This force exceeds that of all breeds measured to date.
And what about humans? We come in at a measly 120 pounds of bite pressure. It is a good thing that we rely more upon our brains than our teeth to survive.
Stanley Coren is the author of many books including: The Modern Dog, Why Do Dogs Have Wet Noses? The Pawprints of History, How Dogs Think, How To Speak Dog, Why We Love the Dogs We Do, What Do Dogs Know? The Intelligence of Dogs, Why Does My Dog Act That Way? Understanding Dogs for Dummies, Sleep Thieves, The Left-hander Syndrome
Copyright SC Psychological Enterprises Ltd. May not be reprinted or reposted without permission.
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