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Post by fureverywhere on Jan 31, 2012 19:01:57 GMT -5
 Okay, I give up...the collar obviously isn't working and the harness is not working...i just wiped out in the middle of the street because dumdum saw a dog on the sidewalk...bent my glasses, fortunate that the jacket is padding for elbows... Tell me again which threads or books or training moves will slow her the &%$# down!!!! It isn't like she hasn't been out for awhile...twice today already. But at night she gets deranged, daytime she walks at a fast clip but I can keep up easy. At night she's like Cujo on Red Bull... Oy ahm gonna smart in the morning...there has to be some way to teach her some kinda night control...Help!
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Post by loverocksalot on Jan 31, 2012 19:09:22 GMT -5
I recommend harness that clips in front on the chest like this usadogshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28 btw if you order this from this store some proceeds go to Real Pit Bull if you mention them when you order. This is one of my favorites www.softouchconcepts.com/or this can be picked up at petsmart or petco but does not fit Rocky right. His chest too large www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2751027Let me find some loose leash walking help for you. I was just looking at that for my lecture. soon as I find I will post for you. It is a must even with one of these harnesses. I do not think the martingale alone will help. I use the harness with leash attached to both harness and collar. |
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Post by fureverywhere on Jan 31, 2012 19:20:11 GMT -5
So i'm confused, can you use the harness with your regular leash or is it a leash that fits on two parts of the harness???
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Post by loverocksalot on Jan 31, 2012 19:23:59 GMT -5
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Post by maryellen on Jan 31, 2012 20:28:53 GMT -5
martingales are just collars the dogs cant slip out of
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Post by Dave on Jan 31, 2012 20:58:14 GMT -5
There's no quick mechanical fix for a puller. It's a long gradual process of teaching the dog that tight leash=no progress, loose leash means go. Sedona is a tough cookie, partly because I taught her it's okay to pull while walking. She's better with a collar (2" martingale) than with a halter, but she's got a long way to go, especially since I haven't been totally consistant with her. Lola and Rocky have learned over the years what's okay, and what's not, by physical cues through the leash, and by verbal cues. I'm not the loose leash walking nazi I used to be. But I don't have the dogs I used to have, either.
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Post by fureverywhere on Jan 31, 2012 21:52:49 GMT -5
And it makes me feel guilty or whatever...we do great at the reservation because off leash she listens and pulling me over isn't an issue. I've read about that idea, consistantly working with them on if you pull we. are. not. moving.
It's not even ongoing pulling really it's that sudden burst of energy There IS A DOG ONTHATSIDEWALKANDBRAWKBRAWKBRAWKBRUFFBRUFFBRUFF Crash
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 1, 2012 7:31:52 GMT -5
Well ^that is different that is more like reactive then loose leash issues although the harness collar thing still will help. And I do clip one leash to both although I plan on buying a new leash from ellas lead that has a leash with two clips. I would look into the books Behavior adjustment training (good video for you on this site) functionalrewards.com/ and Control unleashed controlunleashed.net/ the earlier talk of constantly working with her on not moving and if you pull we will not go anywhere is not going to help her reactivity. BAT training will |
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 1, 2012 8:29:41 GMT -5
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 1, 2012 8:34:43 GMT -5
There's no quick mechanical fix for a puller. It's a long gradual process of teaching the dog that tight leash=no progress, loose leash means go. Sedona is a tough cookie, partly because I taught her it's okay to pull while walking. She's better with a collar (2" martingale) than with a halter, but she's got a long way to go, especially since I haven't been totally consistant with her. Lola and Rocky have learned over the years what's okay, and what's not, by physical cues through the leash, and by verbal cues. I'm not the loose leash walking nazi I used to be. But I don't have the dogs I used to have, either. Dave I think she might not pull as hard if leash were attached to both the front clip and her collar. I find that better with Rocky. I tried putting leash on that back part alone and he can take me for a ride. He really pulls hard when attached to his back. Rocky as well walks better with martingale but that is because I had worked hard on that to prepare for therapy test. However if he decides to pull while on martingale , like he would on a hike, Im going DOWN! That is why I clip leash on front and on his collar because he just does not have the power to pull with the clip on the front of chest. My back just cant do it. |
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pitbullmamaliz
I Love RPBF!
Liz & Inara CGC, TD, TT, B.A., M.A., Ph.D., CW-SR
Posts: 360
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Post by pitbullmamaliz on Feb 1, 2012 9:32:46 GMT -5
I use a head halter with Inara on walks that I'm not ACTIVELY training during. I hate it, but I prefer it (barely) to a front clip for her. But when we're actually working on training, I'm a big fan of using penalty yards: if she pulls, we back up. Over and over and over and...but eventually she gets it until something new catches her fancy. :-)
I also got her a harness specifically so she COULD pull on some walks. It's the one she's wearing in my avatar, from Brown Dog Designs. It's wonderful. It's padded, and it hooks in the back. She knows when that's on she can pull to her heart's desire - good exercise for her and she enjoys it. But when that harness comes off, manners get turned back on.
I do have to admit that sometimes when she is pulling I still fondly remember her prong collar...
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 1, 2012 10:03:06 GMT -5
Yeah I hated the head halter. I ended up returning it. Plus you really need to know how to use it. But in the case for Fureverywhere sounds like she needs to work on reactivity not loose leash walking. However still think she would benefit from the freedom harness as her dog once slipped out after seeing another dog.
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pitbullmamaliz
I Love RPBF!
Liz & Inara CGC, TD, TT, B.A., M.A., Ph.D., CW-SR
Posts: 360
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Post by pitbullmamaliz on Feb 1, 2012 10:08:08 GMT -5
Reactivity can often be lessened by working on loose leash walking though. That tight leash amps everything up.
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 1, 2012 10:30:16 GMT -5
^ true but she was looking for a martingale to stop dog from dragging her when apparently dog is dragging only when seeing another dog. Walks fine otherwise. So both will help.
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Post by Dave on Feb 1, 2012 11:20:54 GMT -5
Dave I think she might not pull as hard if leash were attached to both the front clip and her collar. She pulled just as hard with that setup as she does with anything else. She's a VERY focused dog outside. I decided early on to use what SHE was comfortable with, and now I can start teaching her what I'M comfortable with now that she's more relaxed. One problem at a time for my sweetie. |
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 1, 2012 17:22:16 GMT -5
Yeah she is just on a mission to get somewhere. It sure is good to see though. Amazing its the same dog that was afraid to go anywhere.
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Post by fureverywhere on Feb 2, 2012 22:23:47 GMT -5
Oy that I'm still confused after reading all the posts. What can I do for the reactivity??? I suppose one concept is that when she sees a dog to work with her on calming down and focusing, then praising her for not going crazy. Problem is someone watching her performance wants to understandably get their dog as far away as fast as possible. I try walking her odd hours on routes where we're less likely to see other dogs, but that's not solving the problem.
Not to kvetch but yesterday I felt like I needed a neck brace all day, all night, couldn't even sit up once I got home from work. Today my neck is better but bruises big time and it hurts to breathe deep so some ribs must of gotten bumped too.
Open to all suggestions kidz...
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 3, 2012 8:03:19 GMT -5
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pitbullmamaliz
I Love RPBF!
Liz & Inara CGC, TD, TT, B.A., M.A., Ph.D., CW-SR
Posts: 360
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Post by pitbullmamaliz on Feb 3, 2012 8:10:12 GMT -5
Here is something I wrote on another forum when I was asked how Inara's reactivity got lessened to the point where she could compete around other dogs: The turnaround came when I switched to the positive reinforcement training and learned how to use the clicker. There are a few things that I think really made the difference and continue to do so:
1. Inara's "Sucks To Be You Sequesterings" (STBYS): When we were in class, if she started acting up and barking at everybody, I would cheerfully tell her "sucks to be you!" and drag her into the bathroom. As soon as she settled down (took a few minutes the first time, and eventually shortened to a few seconds) I'd bring her back into the class. The first time we tried it we spent a LOT of time in the bathroom, but after that her improvement was pretty fast. It was an exciting day when we could move to a seat away from the bathroom! LOL
This worked for her because she isn't "aggressive" - she is (most likely) hyper-motivated to interact with the other dogs but has no clue how to do so politely. So taking her away to someplace where she couldn't see the other dogs was a great punishment for her. My trainer and I tried BAT work a couple times (where the other dog moves away from her as soon as she gives a calming signal) but that REALLY pissed her off. As soon as the dog would move FURTHER away she'd lose her shit again.
Now, knowing that she is more hyper-motivated than aggressive doesn't give me a false sense of security. Though she desperately wants to interact with the other dogs, she will tip over very quickly into snarkiness.
2. Look At That (LAT) game: Before I started clicker training, I tried hard to keep Inara from even LOOKING at other dogs because she would freak out. Well, with LAT, she actually gets rewarded for looking at them. It kind of causes a major paradigm shift for the dogs because they learn that it's okay to check out what's interesting them and/or what's making them nervous. This works because I click or say "yes" as SOON as she glances, before she can get fixated. She then orients back to me for a treat. Glance at the dog, click/yes, back at me. It seems counter-productive to treat them for NOT looking at you, but it turns into a game with her trying to fake me out by tilting her head towards the dog but keeping her eyes on me.
3. Basic counter-conditioning: When we're in a situation that I know is going to be overly arousing for her (dogs entering the building, barking dogs, etc) I toss treats on the ground and tell her to "find it!" This teaches her that when Sudden Environmental Changes (SEC) occur, Very Good Things happen. It also diverts her attention before she gets a chance to get worked up. I use this a lot before our Rally league each week as there are dogs moving all around, snarking at each other, etc.
I would honestly say those three things have been what did the most good for her. And learning how to maintain my own composure when she does have the opportunity to act like an ass. I'm not always successful at that but I'm far better than I used to be! LOL It also helps to work on these things around people who you can trust to keep their dogs away and who you know won't judge you if your dog DOES act up. Hopefully that helps you a bit! |
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Post by loverocksalot on Feb 3, 2012 8:16:33 GMT -5
LAT game sounds like what is in Control unleashed which is the class my dad took with his Aussie that had the same type of problem as Inara. She was not aggressive yet over excited to see the dogs so my dad would take her to work and as a dog approached he would stay at the distance where she was not freaking and let her look at the dog and say things like awe look what a nice doggie. work his way closer and closer until now she no longer reacts she just gets to work.
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I look forward to learning much here