Negative Reinforcement and R+

[loverocksalot]

Can someone please help. Explain negative reinforcement. I am trying to understand all this.

So far I found this. www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html

If Rocky is playing bitey face and I cross my arms and dont talk to him is that considered a negative reinforcement?
In other words in Positive training when we allow the dog to figure things out for them self and they dont get a reward or they get ignored for not doing what we want would that be considered a negative
What exactly does R+ mean.
I need to go read some more stuff but I am just getting confused with this operant conditioning stuff.

[loverocksalot]

Just found this Ian Dunbar video. Do you think it would be good to show at my lecture?

[RealPitBull]

Negative reinforcement (R-) is anything the dog will perform a behavior in order to avoid. Example: dog stays in heel position to avoid getting leash-corrected.

R+ is positive reinforcement.

[loverocksalot]

OK but is ignoring a dog or leaving a room when they does a behavior we dont like still a negative reinforcement? Or would it be called something else.
Does totally R+ trainers ever give a correction. And I dont mean collar pops or hitting or anything like that. I just mean maybe an eh noise or just plain ignoring. Or an occasional firm voice?

[RealPitBull]

Ignoring the dog would be positive punishment.

As a whole, positive trainers use R+ and negative punishment
(. I can't speak for ALL R+ trainers, but I can speak for myself. I use verbal "corrections" like "nuh-uh!" - they basically tell the dog, "you will not receive any reward for that, try again".

[loverocksalot]

Ok it can be so confusing when words like positive and neg punishment are used. So saying punishment is never used would not be the right thing to say. the right thing would be to say violent or adverse are not to be used.
I would be lying at my lecture If I said I never used any verbal corrections. The one I mainly use does not work for everyone but I have a dog who can just not come when he feels like it. The more you say Rocky come in a nice voice the more he ignores. I have to say HERE NOW in a rather grovel type voice. He then comes Running because I always give him a good reward and loves when he gets to me. I guess it is similar to an emergency recall. But I would not be telling this at my lecture unless someone had the same scenario as me. Found this hard way when Rocky got out the yard and ignored me calling him. Once I realized he put on the deafness. I did the Here NOW!! and he came. And I tried to make the reward of coming better than being lost in the neighborhood. Unfortunately my family learned this from me and use it more and abuse it more than they should Rocky tends to ignore. So it may not stay an emergency recall.

[RealPitBull]

If I could make a few suggestions.....

I would not go into the quadrants (R+, R-, P+, Unless you have a very firm grasp of these things and real-life examples of each, and can answer specific questions, your best bet is to leave these terms out.

You're on the right track when you mentioned using a term like "aversive". You can say, "Positive training uses rewards; it does not use aversives like leash or other physical corrections." Avoid words like "violent".

Just be careful the direction you take this lecture in doesn't make things tricky for you - are you prepared to answer questions like, "What do you do when the dog does something you don't want?" and many "How do I....?" type questions?

What if you made this more about your personal journey with Rocky? Avoid anything instructional and just tell your story. Then, at the end of the talk, you can provide resources for learning about positive training?

[loverocksalot]

Oh I have no intentions of talking about R+ - P+- I am just curious for my own information. So far my intentions are to talk of journey with Rocky and I will be showing some paul owens clips where people can do things at home in everyday life. I think I can answer some what do I do when dog does something I dont like. But I am not necessarily prepared to answer questions on aggression that would be for a behaviorist. I am going to demonstrate some behaviors with Rocky. And he will do his tricks. I am basically going to show what I do with him. and how well it works. I want people to go home an incorporate rewarding their dog for what they want in their every day life.
I listed what I plan so far on my thread 9 days of training.

[RealPitBull]

^ good stuff!