perseus
I Love RPBF!
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Posts: 470
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Post by perseus on Jun 18, 2012 11:09:21 GMT -5
Ok, so I just joined the forum and under most circumstances would wait for quite awhile to post but the main impetus for joining the other day is my 1 yr old got into his first and hopefully last fight and I went looking information from experienced multi pit owners.
A brief history on my dog(s). I found Perseus last July behind some equipment at my work about 2 lbs, skin and bones and took him home. He is my buddy and has really changed me and turned me into a pit bull convert - I get why people who have them are so loyal to the breed. I have tried to learn as much as possible and we are in our second (an intermediate) class, but I know I am new and have made mistakes and don't think I know it all.
He has never displayed any dog aggression and if anything maybe a bit submissive, he is a total boisterous party animal who only wants to play. A few months after I rescued him a grown, unaltered, male pit who looked exactly like perseus wondered up looking pretty rough, (my work is on a very busy street in a fairly rough part of town) to make a long story short this dog went home with me and then went to live with my son. This dog is an amazing dog, so well behaved and got along with perseus and and our 3 small dogs. He has been totally tolerant and patient of perseus rough housing and they have been best buds whenever crooks would come to visit. We had Crooks at our house last week while my son was out of town and Friday morning my wife was in the back with the dogs and I heard a commotion that sent me running outside. They were locked onto each others faces: Perseus had Crooks by the eyesocket, and Crook had Perseus by the side of the face. Didn't have a brake stick. Well we got them apart finally with injuries to all four of us:) Crooks had to go to the vet, Perseus got him pretty good but he is fine. The fight was over a damn stick they both picked up.
Ok, my question. Is it possible to let them interact with each other ever again. The trainer I use (she specializes in Pits) says probably not, that once two dogs fight in can really escalate in intensity every time (not that that wasn't intense). In reading some previous posts, the comments made by you folks that have had years of experience with multiple pit household seems to echo that same sentiment. I am a realist and I realize that time of them just being able to let them hang out together may be over. They seem to be cool to each other - no posturing or hard looks. They have sniffed through the kennels, with tails wagging and we took them on a walk together keeping a good distance apart and seemed cool but I am not taking chances without a whole lot more insight and advice. Sorry for the epic here-just want to do best by my dog.
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Post by Dave on Jun 18, 2012 11:55:39 GMT -5
Short answer... maybe they can, but expect them to have issues with each other from now on.
Now my questions. Are they altered? Are there unaltered females in the house?
Long answer... In my experience, and others whose experience I've relied on over the years, your two boys will never be able to be trusted together. Same sex aggression is very common, and the reason many suggest an opposite sex dog as a second one. Crooks doesn't live at your house so his attitude is different there than at home. Your Perseus is still a pup, but maturing, and males generally start throwing their weight around at his age.
You should not allow them unfettered freedom with each other now. You can start back at square one with leashed introductions to see how that goes. Even if there is no overt aggression they can still be willing to pick up where they left off. Just because they show no signs of it is no reason to ignore the possibility.
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perseus
I Love RPBF!
The Monkee Boys
Posts: 470
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Post by perseus on Jun 18, 2012 12:00:57 GMT -5
They are both unaltered. We got crooks fixed right away and Perseus was as soon as he was old enough. All our animals get fixed.
Thanks for the advice.
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perseus
I Love RPBF!
The Monkee Boys
Posts: 470
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Post by perseus on Jun 18, 2012 12:02:32 GMT -5
Sorry mean altered ;D get going to fast.
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Post by Dave on Jun 18, 2012 12:09:17 GMT -5
So, even with the hormones out of the picture you have an issue.
Each dog is different with possessions and resources. At my house Lola freely shares any chew toy with Rocky, but I've seen her try to nail him if she thinks he's getting too much attention from someone. And, my two girls can never be together again since their blowout. Even though they seem to be 100% compatible with a barrier between them, I often get confirming actions from one or the other that tells me they have to be separated for life. There's no aggression, but subtle signs that say "keep 'em separated."
Let us know how things progress.
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Post by suziriot on Jun 18, 2012 12:40:35 GMT -5
First, I want to say kudos to you for trying to educate yourself about dog aggression and trying to set your dogs up for success.  Ditto to what Dave said. There are actually quite a few of us here on the forum with multi-dog households that have been doing crate and rotate for years. As you may have read in the other threads, we tend to be a "better safe than sorry" crowd. Any reintroductions should be done on leash, with no triggers present (food, too much activity, toys, etc), and with each dog being handled separately. You and the other handler also need to make sure you are not communicating any anxiety or nervousness to the dogs. You must be calm and relaxed, or the dogs WILL pick up on it. Keep the interaction very short and always end on a positive. End interaction immediately if you see one of them giving the "stink eye" (going very still, looking at the other dog our of the corner of their eye, etc). You can positively reinforce good, calm interaction by giving treats AFTER walking the dogs away from one another so that they are completely separated and not near one another at all. Good luck and let us know how it goes if you do decide to try interaction again. |
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Post by suziriot on Jun 18, 2012 12:42:46 GMT -5
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Post by Dave on Jun 18, 2012 13:46:31 GMT -5
Ooohhh thanks, gotta check that out! |
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Post by emilys on Jun 18, 2012 13:57:48 GMT -5
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Post by AmyJo27 on Jun 18, 2012 20:45:42 GMT -5
Im going to have to get me a copy of these books with having my 2 boys.
And Perseus is SO SO cute!!! <3 your profile pic!!
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Post by RealPitBull on Jun 19, 2012 9:56:38 GMT -5
In a nutshell, management. Don't give them an inch of leeway until you have a better idea of what sort of grudge they may or may not be holding towards each other. In other words: *no running loose together *keep triggers like bones, toys, sticks (!), etc out of their area when they are together *re-introduce on neutral territory, and do some parallel, on-leash walking, gradually getting them closer and closer together as you see them relax around each other. The Talking Terms with Dogs book is great because it helps you notice subtle signs of stress and can help you avoid a fight long before one actual breaks out. Also, this page may help: www.realpitbull.com/harmony.html |
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perseus
I Love RPBF!
The Monkee Boys
Posts: 470
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Post by perseus on Jun 19, 2012 10:07:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the book tips and your responses. After plowing through lot's of previous posts on this subject the common thread here is that it seems you have have two types of pit owners; (I think someone on this forum even put it like that in a post) ones who have never experienced a real "locked on" fight and those that have. I don't wish the experience on anyone. You can have all the book knowledge in the world and even be practicing applying it but there is nothing to drive home what your breed is capable of and created to do like experiencing it first hand. I have had to come to terms with some things. There are no more dog parks for Perseus - yes I have taken him to the park as a puppy with the knowledge that at some point we would have to stop. While it may give us warm fuzzies; it's a disaster waiting to happen, not to mention rampant stupidity thrives there. I allowed my pup to be subjected to inappropriate behavior and unsafe conditions i realize now. Being left anytime at all unsupervised with his housemates is no longer an option. I get it! Makes me sad but I love my dog too much to not be honest with myself. I read a lot of posts by people who have way more knowledge about pits than i but who seem to still deny what is the truth and have an idealistic view of what our breed is. I truly hope you don't have to ever learn the hard way and i believe the best way to do that is to assume that it will and do the things necessary t o prevent it.
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Post by michele5611 on Jun 19, 2012 10:13:33 GMT -5
Sounds like you have a good grasp on what needs to be done. I commend you for taking the time to educate yourself.
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Post by suziriot on Jun 19, 2012 10:17:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the book tips and your responses. After plowing through lot's of previous posts on this subject the common thread here is that it seems you have have two types of pit owners; (I think someone on this forum even put it like that in a post) ones who have never experienced a real "locked on" fight and those that have. I don't wish the experience on anyone. You can have all the book knowledge in the world and even be practicing applying it but there is nothing to drive home what your breed is capable of and created to do like experiencing it first hand. I have had to come to terms with some things. There are no more dog parks for Perseus - yes I have taken him to the park as a puppy with the knowledge that at some point we would have to stop. While it may give us warm fuzzies; it's a disaster waiting to happen, not to mention rampant stupidity thrives there. I allowed my pup to be subjected to inappropriate behavior and unsafe conditions i realize now. Being left anytime at all unsupervised with his housemates is no longer an option. I get it! Makes me sad but I love my dog too much to not be honest with myself. I read a lot of posts by people who have way more knowledge about pits than i but who seem to still deny what is the truth and have an idealistic view of what our breed is. I truly hope you don't have to ever learn the hard way and i believe the best way to do that is to assume that it will and do the things necessary t o prevent it. Sounds like you want to do what's best for Perseus. A "real" fight is one of the worst things a dog owner can experience. As you said, it's hard to remain calm and use your head rather than just freaking out. Big difference between what I call a scuffle (which may involve snapping and snarling but no one really makes contact or gets hurt) and an actual fight. This fight doesn't necessarily mean that Perseus can never ever interact with other dogs. But as Mary said, it's all about management. And good call on staying away from the dog parks.  |
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Post by emilys on Jun 19, 2012 10:34:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the book tips and your responses. After plowing through lot's of previous posts on this subject the common thread here is that it seems you have have two types of pit owners; (I think someone on this forum even put it like that in a post) ones who have never experienced a real "locked on" fight and those that have. I don't wish the experience on anyone. You can have all the book knowledge in the world and even be practicing applying it but there is nothing to drive home what your breed is capable of and created to do like experiencing it first hand. I have had to come to terms with some things. There are no more dog parks for Perseus - yes I have taken him to the park as a puppy with the knowledge that at some point we would have to stop. While it may give us warm fuzzies; it's a disaster waiting to happen, not to mention rampant stupidity thrives there. I allowed my pup to be subjected to inappropriate behavior and unsafe conditions i realize now. Being left anytime at all unsupervised with his housemates is no longer an option. I get it! Makes me sad but I love my dog too much to not be honest with myself. I read a lot of posts by people who have way more knowledge about pits than i but who seem to still deny what is the truth and have an idealistic view of what our breed is. I truly hope you don't have to ever learn the hard way and i believe the best way to do that is to assume that it will and do the things necessary t o prevent it. I admire your willingness to face reality and learn from it. So many owner of pit bulls simply deny what happens (or what can happen). Everyone in your house will be happier and safer! |
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I look forward to learning much here