Hello!

[ames]

Hi, I'm Ames, I have a 4 year old mutt named Gargamel.  Of course I think he is the best dog ever. I live in Boston and work with servers for my "real" (aka to pay the bills) job, but I am also the social media specilist for Pit Bulletin Legal News Network.  The Network is comprised of Pit Bulletin Legal News Radio, StopBSL, K.C. Dog Blog, Beyond Breed, Canine Agression with Jim Crosby, the Doglawreporter and Dangerous Dog Law.  If you have time we do a live radio show every Tuesday Night on BlogTalkRadio, you can also listen to old shows on demand.

Anyway enough about what I do, lets talk about my great boy.  I was told varying things about what happened to him when he was a puppy.  Since I wasn't there, I can only surmise he was attacked at 4 weeks and lived at the vet til almost 6 weeks when a friend of mine took him home.  At three months that friend had to go away for business and I puppy sat for 3 weeks and fell in love. My work schedule was 3, 12 hour shifts and it was hard to have a puppy and when Mel was a year old I got a normal schedule and he came to live with me full time.   


I see you guys are into positive training.  I tried that for 3 years with 4 different trainers and behaviorists before finding a trainer that practiced all training styles and I started to see some positive changes in my boys anxiety and behavior using her different methods.  I am very open to others and how they train and hope to learn more about what I obviously missed in regards to positive reinforcement training only.  I already saw a few posts I liked and then realized I was rude for not introducing myself!  

I am very opinionated and I welcome a good debate.  I will try not to overload you all, but its been 4 years and like 20,000 pictures lol

Anyway, here is my boy!

his Easter Picture:


We just got back form vacation, here is a shot from our trip during a hike:


and after Hike swimming


This was what he did best while on vacation:



This picture I emailed to a radio host and got him to call me back, we had a long talk about dogs and bully breeds and he asked me on his radio show with the local City Councilor Rob Consalvo who is trying to get it reinstated in the City of Boston, it is one of my favorite pics as well.  (if you want to listen to the radio show, here is a link in case anyone is interested in listening)



working out on a walk


fall leaves 


Second favorite Ball


favorite ball EVER


Green lantern Mel


Puppy Mel

[michele5611]

Welcome aboard! Love the name Gargamel!! What a handsome guy.

[RealPitBull]

Oh my, I love your dog. He is SOOO cute and handsome.

Welcome, I think you might like it here. We are all very opinionated, passionate people. As long as we can keep it civil, debates here are always welcome

Sorry you did not have a good experience with positive training. Unfortunately, there are so many trainers out there without proper credentials, using positive methods, and giving "positive training" a bad name. ALL dogs, when worked with properly, can be trained using "positive" methods. Ask any questions on the Behavior/Training board. Let's talk! All I ask is that you respect the fact that this is a forum that promotes and advocates non-aversive training methods.

Thanks and hope you enjoy the forum!

[catstina]

Welcome aboard! You will find that we are all very opinionated, as well. And most of us disagree with a lot of what your network has to say. This forum is full of people who love Pit Bulls as the BREED that they are. And yes, most of the members here (as well as admins) prefer positive training methods so we can build a relationship of love and respect with our dogs, but there are a few members who use aversive methods, as well. I'm sure there will be some head butting, but, as long as you have an open mind, you should fit in just fine. My opinions have changed so much since I first joined, and I'm so happy that they have!

Gargamel is very handsome! He reminds me so much of a friend's Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Nick, in the picture next to the pool! Nick is the one on the left in this photo: sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/406367_455288264491590_1885118572_n.jpg How much does he weigh? I wonder if he might be a Stafford? Whatever he is, he's super handsome! Hope to see more of him!

[suziriot]

Oh my goodness, Gargamel is too cute and I love his name too, lol! Welcome to the forum!

[ames]

Thank you all for the kind words about my boy. He really is awesome, as I am sure all your dogs are too! I grew up on the smurfs, for anyone who didn't know where it was from. Shows my age

I look forward to learning and talking more and more about positive only training and welcome advice and opinions on what I have and have not tried. I agree, a good trainer is hard to find that helps you along with your dog. I didnt stop until I found one I was comfortable with and liked the results from our work I am willing to put work in, I have no problem with that and didn't even care about it really until my boy was 2. I ignorantly accepted his behavior as typical for his "type" and just didnt bring him around other animals off leash. I didnt realize what he was telling me and didnt learn how to read him until I was shown. I have learned so much and am eager to learn as much as I can. Since I am able to read him a LOT better I want to try the positive route again, hence why I am here. Who knows, but I am willing to try anything as long as it helps my dog. I will try to get a thread started, but didn't want to bore anyone into repeating themselves before I had time to properly look at the past threads.

If I want to do what I hate anyone else doing (judging by appearance and not bloodlines) I would guess my boy is an American Staffordshire Terrier. Mel is 18 inches tall, 19 inches long and 55-57lbs Nick certainly is HANDSOME!!! I maybe a bit biased though lol

I am curious about what you, or most of the members and admin on here, disagree with in regards to PBLNN. To me, we are a diverse group of dog owners who have a goal of ending breed discriminatory legislation and helping people see they should not judge a dog on appearance only. We offer fact based articles and reference for any and all advocates or person who is involved is dog legislation. Our network is comprised of extremely varying opinions, hence the radio show we do, we all get a voice. For instance, some feel the pit bull isn't a breed at all. Others feel it is a breed, the one and only American Pit Bull Terrier and pit bull is a nickname for that breed. Still yet others feel American Staffordshire Terriers are also OK to be called pit bulls and consider them the same breed, just different registries. My point is although we all have different opinions on what a pit bull is (or isn't) we are all able to be heard and agree on that main point. Judge a dog based off how it is managed not by what breed it is or might be. The end result for all is to treat each dog as a dog and not as a type or something that can be judged on anything but behavior.

Are you guys for judging dogs based on appearance alone? Just want to know what I joined lol I came here from facebook, read some comments on the RPB page and saw a few posts and thought it was similar to how I feel about some issues. I didn't know about the positive only til I read the rules, but I know that wont be a problem I am not into telling anyone to do anything they are not comfortable with (well except dog parks I kinda hate them for any dog though not just pit bulls and have no problem telling people that).

[suziriot]

Ames, I really appreciate your post. Here on the forum we love to discuss and debate the very issues you brought up, and we keep things very respectful. But not too fluffy, if you get my meaning. We're not afraid to take on the tough issues, and some of us are more blunt than others. Oh and most, if not all, of us agree that dog parks are a no-no in general.

So I'll be honest and say I have mixed feelings about PBLNN. As you said, it seems to have many different opinions and perspectives, which can be either a good or bad thing depending on the issue and/or context. But I haven't read enough to really form a strong opinion. Others here know the group better and may offer their feedback.

I do hope you'll like it here and stick around. You seem to have the kind of open and engaged attitude that we like around here!

[suziriot]

Oh, and for the most part we are pretty strongly in the "a pit bull is an American Pit Bull Terrier" camp. There are many many discussion threads that should provide better clarification on the different forum members' thoughts on this.

[RealPitBull]

Hey Ames!

I really don't know much about PBLNN - I have no judgement on it either way since I am not very familiar with it! I haven't been on the site in a while (actually just went to check it out) and I have yet to read through much of it. My organization, RPB, takes no stance on the site.

As far as asking whether we judge by appearance....well, first of all, we are a forum of almost 2000 individuals. Some of us operate rescue or advocacy groups. We all TEND to share (not to say ALL share) the same general beliefs, hence why we all congregate here. But I cannot speak for anyone but myself and my organization. I'm not sure what you mean by "judge by appearance". What sort of judgement would I have of any dog until I got to know something about his temperament? Unless you mean "judge appearance by guessing breed", then yes - we are a purebred dog rescue and like most purebred dog rescues, we mostly deal with dogs of unknown pedigree. So we choose which dogs enter our program based on our belief that such and such a dog is a purebred APBT. We judge appearance as well as temperament. We don't really have a choice in the matter. Being an APBT org, we certainly wouldn't take in dogs that we thought we some other breed. The nature of our (again RPB's) work requires us to "guess breed" to some degree - purebred rescues don't usually have a choice. But we don't believe in the notion that NO one can visually ID a purebred dog, certainly not if said purebred dog is one they have studied and lived with for years and years.

This forum was set up to promote the ideals/position statements of RPB. But we allow free thinking on here. We love questions, and our (RPB and RPBF's) goal is always to help educate. About the only thing you'll find Michele (moderator and co-director of RPB) and I do not allow, are pro-dog fighting posts/comments, or posts blatantly promoting aversive training techniques or equipment. Those are two stances we cannot and will not be flexible on.

Hope this helps some and I do hope you will stick around for a bit. You may find that the forum ideals aren't for you, which is fine, but you may also discover a great little network of people who really support each other and are super passionate about the breed.

[ames]

Awesome I have no problem getting down and dirty and with fluff. I am in the middle of the spectrum of the hard core dogger to fur mama. Glad to hear we all pretty much agree on my one issue of dog parks though. I will respectfully disagree on a purebred rescue claiming they have a pure bred anything without knowing the bloodlines of the dog in question. That must be it then, all of us at PBLNN pretty much through research and science have been shown Visual ID is bunk. Especially when it gives credit to every person claiming they are a breed expert and can look and tell a breed without knowing anything. (ie next door neighbor claiming the dogs up the street are pit bulls and people think he is able to identify them as such from looks alone)

Glad to clear that up and I will try and respect your opinion while 100% disagreeing with you inside (and maybe if I cant help but comment on something somewhere at some point lol.) I feel it does more harm than good judging ANYTHING by looks alone (ie the bad driver must be women, the Mexican up the street loving beans and rice). Got into pretty bad with GSD board about the subject when they trolled a forum I am a mod on and told them they cant know for 100 certainty if their dog isn't mixed with something at some point either. So I can see what its a sore spot if your rescue is based off thinking anyone can with any certainty. I have seen so many dogs not fit the "typical" traits of a pit bull, who are one and a ton of dogs who do not and are not a pit bull but behave as others claims a pit bull should behave. Why do you think its is beneficial to claim visual ID is possible?

Very interesting though, thanks for explaining.

[catstina]

I disagree with PBLN's notion that DNA can accurately identify a dog's breed and that it is absolutely impossible to identify a dog's breed by looking at the dog. Of course, it is difficult to ID breed based on a photo or a passing glance, but breed experts can and do identify their breed of expertise by looks and temperament. If that weren't possible, there couldn't be breed rescues and there really wouldn't be different breeds, would there? Not to mention dog shows would be impossible to judge! You really don't think anyone could look at the picture below and positively identify the dog as a pug?


You really don't think anyone could look at the picture below and positively identify the dog as a Dalmatian?


You really don't think anyone could look at the picture below and positively identify the dog as a Golden Retriever?


Layman may not be able to ID different breeds just by looking at them, but experts can and do. You can say that visual breed identification is unreliable without saying that it is impossible and without claiming that DNA breed identification is even a little bit reliable. The science is still in it's infancy and many of those tests can't even identify a pure bred dog of known parentage and pedigree! The tests are getting better, but they are FAR from accurate and I'd go so far as to say that, in most cases, visual identification by an expert is much more accurate than those silly tests. They are good for a laugh or for fun, but they are far from "proof" of a dog's breed.


I also completely disagree with the idea that there is "no such breed as a Pit Bull," most, if not all, members of this forum will agree with me on that. I think that it is absolutely wrong and very dangerous idea and really hate to see a group that reaches so many perpetuating the myth. The American Pit Bull Terrier is a breed that has been recognized by the UKC since the late 1800's and recognized by the AKC (under the name "Staffordshire Terrier" and later "American Staffordshire Terrier") since the 1930's. I am of the belief that the AmStaff and APBT are different "types" of the same breed. Considering that no other breed went into the creation of the AmStaff other than the APBT and many dogs are dual registered as APBTs with the UKC and AmStaffs with the AKC, I think there are many more similarities than there are differences between the breeds. When I say they are different "types," I mean that in the same way that one talks about show bred versus working bred types of certain breeds.


At his size Gargamel definitely isn't a SBT (though I still think he looks JUST like Nicky!), it's probably a fair guess that he's an AmStaff/APBT or high content mix. He's a handsome guy whatever he is!

[ames]

I agree with you, I subscribe that there is ONLY one pit bull, the American Pit Bull Terrier. Just wanted to be clear on that. I agree with you totally. That pit bull IS a breed, NOT a type of dog. Not all subscribe to that thought on PBLNN, but personally, Ames, does. I hope that is clear.

PBLNN does NOT AT ALL agree DNA can verify a dog lineage. Not sure why you think we do, we must be doing something wrong if you think we believe DNA tests lol. We do not think DNA or Visual identification is possible. As a whole.

We had a geneticist come on who explained the blood panels are far more reliable, but none test for APBT so we all know they are not there YET. Maybe one day, but not right now. you know a county in Texas ALLOWS DNA tests to be submitted as breed proof, soo scary and wrong!!! There is also a great video of a Chacko dog , who bloodlines are known, getting the DNA test done and getting results that were so far off! it was crazy! lol

OK, so let me try to explain how I feel. A judge at a dog show is judging a breed standard for the specific show they are judging. They are an expert at looking at a dog and seeing if it conforms with a breed standard set in place. There are MANY pure bred dogs that do not conform, and there are MANY mutts that COULD conform the this standard. I am sure you have run across a pit bull that doesn't care about other dogs, as I have (and am jealous of I will admit lol). That is "friends" with other animals and isn't going to try and kill every thing that it sees. I am also sure you have run across pit bulls that have a huge prey drive and are only out for getting the end result, whatever it is to stop moving. It doesn't mean one is more of a pit bull than the other, if they both look like a pit bull, does the one without the aggression mean its not a pit bull? (I know some dogmen feel it makes it am Amstaff, but I don't subscribe to that, I think they are both still pit bulls) The prey drive isn't just pit bull related either, I have seen a golden with HUGE aggression issues. Behavior and appearance have nothing to do with one another. Just like if you take an abused dog out of a horrible situation with the worst owner ever, does that mean the dog is bad? The dog could be fine and excel with the right handler and if they are manged by the right owner.   If you breed 2 bomb sniffing dogs (a behavior) with each other is every dog from the breeding going to be a bomb sniffing dog?  MAYBE you might get one or 2, but there is NO guarantee the behavioral trait needed for bomb sniffing would be in all the hands dealt every puppy.  

I do not think you can look at ANY breed of dog and know for 100% certainty WHAT the breed is. Genes in dogs are like a deck of cards. You can have a golden bred to say a dalmatian and every single dog comes out looking like the golden, because that's the cards that were dealt to this dog. You could have one look like a dalmatian, you could have one look like a mix between the 2 breeds. Then you breed their offspring to another golden, and another golden and another golden, and they produce a litter with spots because the dalmatian trait was still there is just wasn't dominate gene but this hand a puppy got dealt the spotted gene. Would you then look at that dog and call it pure, but look at its littermate and call it a mix? Now I know that's not the best example, but to me it helps make it clear how the luck of the draw it is. Genetically the square head, short muzzle if MORE DOMINATE than a small head, long muzzle. Genetically any dog mixed with a bull dog will get the square head, because that's the dominate trait. Unless you know for a fact what your dogs bloodlines are, you never know if there could have been an opps pairing back in the day that produced the great great sire for your dog unless you know the breeder or know the lines of your dog with 100% certainty.

So to answer you, no I do not subscribe that I can know what any breed a dog is by looking or by DNA. I can only take a guess, educated or not, its still just a guess and DNA has NOT caught up with the guesses yet...

What qualifies someone as an expert? Do they have to take a test and if so, how are the results calculated is DNA is crap and the bloodlines are not known? What if you have Colleen Lynn who claims she is an expert? She feels bull dogs are pit bulls. It gets scary thinking SOME people are breed expert by visual ID but others are NOT. How do you decipher a real visual ID breed expert verses a poser or a hater? How do you explain studies where breed experts were asked to identify the dog by looks alone and picked the wrong dog?  How can anyone WANT to be considered an expert when there is so much pressure on not being wrong?    Who decides who is an expert and who is a layman?

[ames]

ooo I like that I can "like" things lol sorry just noticed
oh and I looked, is swearing allowed on here?  I try to keep my trucker mouth in check but sometimes I slip, lol

Also is there like a new threads thing I am missing?  So I can see all the threads that have been updated since last visit?  and I missing it?

[catstina]

Apr 10, 2013 22:17:16 GMT -5 ames said:

ooo I like that I can "like" things lol sorry just noticed
oh and I looked, is swearing allowed on here?  I try to keep my trucker mouth in check but sometimes I slip, lol

Also is there like a new threads thing I am missing?  So I can see all the threads that have been updated since last visit?  and I missing it?

I don't think we're really supposed to swear, but I know I have before! Just don't go too crazy, lol. If you look in the top right corner there is a "Participated" link, which shows you threads you've participated in, but I don't think there is a "recent threads" area anymore. We used to have one, but I think the most recent update ate it.

I'll reply to your other post tomorrow, I'm headed to bed at the moment and not thinking well enough to put my thoughts into words. Have a nice night!

[ames]

Ooooo thank you very much!! I will keep it user control and hope you have a great sleep!

[ames]

Apr 11, 2013 1:07:08 GMT -5 ames said:

Ooooo thank you very much!! I will keep it user control and hope you have a great sleep!

Under* control

[RealPitBull]

Apr 9, 2013 22:11:20 GMT -5 ames said:

Awesome I have no problem getting down and dirty and with fluff. I am in the middle of the spectrum of the hard core dogger to fur mama. Glad to hear we all pretty much agree on my one issue of dog parks though.

Oh, yeah, most of us are certainly against dog parks, and like you said, for me, I don't like dog parks for ANY breed.  But I think it is important for dogs to be socialized off leash.  But it would have to be a special situation, like, a group of responsible people, organizing a group of appropriately-matched dogs, for a safe romp. Ya know?  Also, I wanted to share RPB's dog park page:

Pit Bulls & Dog Parks

I will respectfully disagree on a purebred rescue claiming they have a pure bred anything without knowing the bloodlines of the dog in question.

I think every purebred rescue that knows anything about anything, and any person that has done a modicum of research before adopting from a purebred rescue, understands that "no papers" means "no guarentee of lineage". In fact, papers don't even guarentee lineage, especially when we are talking about some of the shadier registries out there.

That must be it then, all of us at PBLNN pretty much through research and science have been shown Visual ID is bunk.

This is VERY new science, with only a few studies, IMO sometimes biased considering their connections, and consider the DNA companies claiming to ID breed/mix are the ones making all this money on the DNA craze. And try telling purebred dog judges that they cannot use visual ID to determine breed or quality of breed type. Yes, it is assumed dogs entering show rings are purebred because of papers, but again, papers aren't even a guarentee. Paper hanging is a real thing. It's just silly to assume that NO one can EVER visually ID breed. But I do know why the "pit bull type" advocacy people are so eager to latch onto a few DNA studies - because it helps them fight BSL. It's a great argument - NO one can ID breed visually, so that means BSL is garbage legislation and cannot work from jump.

Especially when it gives credit to every person claiming they are a breed expert and can look and tell a breed without knowing anything.

It only gives credence to people making claims, if you GIVE it to them. You have to look at and consider someone's credentials and profession and THEN determine if there is any merit to what they are saying. And just because there are some uneducated people making ridiculous claims they have NO right to be making, does that mean EVERYONE else, regardless of credentials, is wrong?

Glad to clear that up and I will try and respect your opinion while 100% disagreeing with you inside (and maybe if I cant help but comment on something somewhere at some point lol.)

You can talk about it. I don't want you bursting inside because you are keeping a comment in.  We actually like talking about this topic here, because it'll help both sides come to some kind of understanding and maybe - hopefully! - someday a consensus. At least, that is my HOPE. So I'm really glad you are here, personally.

I feel it does more harm than good judging ANYTHING by looks alone (ie the bad driver must be women, the Mexican up the street loving beans and rice).

I think that is a very unfair comparison. And dog breeds, bred over many decades or sometimes centuries for certain physical and behavioral traits aren't human races. Not an accurate comparison!) We are a purebred rescue with limited funds, working to save/preserve a breed of dog, and we have no choice but to form an OPINION on what a dog's breed is, before we bring it into our program. It's not like there is a limited number out there, there are plenty of Pit Bulls, mixes, and dogs mistakenly ID'd as Pit Bulls to go around. We are still saving a life, just like any other rescue.

So I can see what its a sore spot if your rescue is based off thinking anyone can with any certainty.

ANYone? I never said that. That is not even CLOSE to what I'm saying. I'm saying the opposite, actually. I think most people are really bad at ID'ing breed.

I have seen so many dogs not fit the "typical" traits of a pit bull, who are one and a ton of dogs who do not and are not a pit bull but behave as others claims a pit bull should behave. Why do you think its is beneficial to claim visual ID is possible?

I'm not really sure what your point is? So you've seen Pit Bulls not act like Pit Bulls, and other breeds act like a preconceived notion of what Pit Bulls SHOULD act like? Ok....and? Sorry, not being snarky, but who is saying that EVERY Pit Bull behaves the same way, and NO other breed EVER acts like what might be considered "typical Pit Bull behavior"? My platform has always been ALL dogs can do such-and-such behavior. If you want to get into a discussion about temperament, various bloodlines, and behavioral traits, I'd love to.

And again, truly NOT to be snarky, I'm actually very cool with this discussion and thank you for bringing it onto the boards.

P.S. I'm just curious, but think this is a relevant question: have you ever heavily been involved with or lived with a specific, papered, breed?

[RealPitBull]

Apr 10, 2013 19:10:43 GMT -5 catstina said:

I also completely disagree with the idea that there is "no such breed as a Pit Bull," most, if not all, members of this forum will agree with me on that. I think that it is absolutely wrong and very dangerous idea and really hate to see a group that reaches so many perpetuating the myth.

Yeah, agreed 100% I don't know if people who constantly say, "No such breed as a pit bull" realize they are formulating that mindset based off of BSL? For sake of simplicity, BSL always just referred to APBTs, ASTs, and (the very closely related) SBT, as "pit bulls" in laws. And BSL will include dogs that only LOOK like Pit Bulls, but aren't necessarily, and Pit Bulls and other breeds so often get mis-ID'd, but that does NOT mean it is accurate to say "Pit Bull" is "not a breed". It is ridiculous to do so, actually.

.

[RealPitBull]

Apr 10, 2013 22:17:16 GMT -5 ames said:

ooo I like that I can "like" things lol sorry just noticed
oh and I looked, is swearing allowed on here?  I try to keep my trucker mouth in check but sometimes I slip, lol

Also is there like a new threads thing I am missing?  So I can see all the threads that have been updated since last visit?  and I missing it?

Isn't the "like" button cool?! That is a new feature here.

You can slip a curseword in here and there; we try to keep it PG-13 for the most part. But I certainly have a trucker mouth, too, and have been known to slip up now and again It's dirty talk that is really not appropriate more than the occasional "SH&%" or F-bomb.

There is a new thread link at the bottom of the forum, above the Shout Box. It is in the Forum Information & Statistics box, see Recent Threads and Recent Posts.
And like Catstina said, there is a little box on the top right of the forum called "Participated" - it'll show "New" when a thread you have posted in contains new posts.

[michele5611]

Apr 11, 2013 8:07:38 GMT -5 RealPitBull said:

Apr 10, 2013 19:10:43 GMT -5 catstina said:

I also completely disagree with the idea that there is "no such breed as a Pit Bull," most, if not all, members of this forum will agree with me on that. I think that it is absolutely wrong and very dangerous idea and really hate to see a group that reaches so many perpetuating the myth.

Yeah, agreed 100% I don't know if people who constantly say, "No such breed as a pit bull" realize they are formulating that mindset based off of BSL? For sake of simplicity, BSL always just referred to APBTs, ASTs, and (the very closely related) SBT, as "pit bulls" in laws. And BSL will include dogs that only LOOK like Pit Bulls, but aren't necessarily, and Pit Bulls and other breeds so often get mis-ID'd, but that does NOT mean it is accurate to say "Pit Bull" is "not a breed". It is ridiculous to do so, actually.

.

Not to mention that a lot of proponents of BSL are taking this whole no such thing as a pit bull thing and running with it and using it against us.