Almost a 180 degree change in behavior

[melonie]

I posted awhile back about a dog at the shelter named Snowboy aka Snow. (male bull breed mix)
He is 100% no children dog. He came in stoic, leery, and DA. I didn't trust him, but I wasn't afraid of him. I also didn't like the 'vibes' he gave off. I had been asked to evaluate the dog and give my opinion. Which I did. At first I labeled him as a no kid no other dog kind of dog, and also a 'yellow' dog. He was not happy to greet, he was not a happy dog. After witnessing his behavior with a teenage boy, I recommended he not be adopted out.
The shelter went ahead and had him fixed. They weren't ready to give up on him. The vet who performed the surgery agreed with me that he shouldn't be adopted, and said that it is hard to convince the board when it is truly necessary.

A few days after his fix, I was at the shelter to work with another dog. When I greeted him, I was . Here was a tail wagging, relaxed expression, wiggly dog. I contacted the shelter manager to see if he'd ever acted like this before. He hadn't until that day or the day before. I went back to the shelter a couple days later and there was a note for me to see if I could determine if Snow could hear or not. So I grabbed two metal dishes, and my click and a treat. While his back was to me, (eating his treat) and I was behind him, I clanged the two bowls together. He did not react at all. He didn't turn his head to look to see what happened, he didn't flinch etc. Next I used my clicker. So long as he was looking at me he would follow my movements. So I held my hands down at my side, and clicked, and got no reaction. Lastly I dropped the metal bowl on the ground. No reaction. So now the shelter is looking into rescue for him.

Now, When you approach his kennel he greets you with a tail wag and wiggle in his body. He is ready to engage with you. The dog who was next to him found a home so he has a new dog beside him. He likes her a lot better and doesn't try to attack the wall as often or as aggressively. Someone was brave and put him in an outdoor run with her and they got along alright and spent their time playing. I personally won't put them in a run together because I don't trust either of them. One wrong move and it can go to hell quickly.
When I work with Snow I try to be the least threatening I can be. Given he can't hear me, I pay attention to how I move around him.

I don't feel bad about my initial assessment. Given the circumstances, community, and available resources, putting him down would have been the best choice. I'm just really surprised to see how much testosterone affects a dogs disposition. How do you gauge a dog in this situation? Now that I understand his challenges, I'm afraid to give up on him.

[seamonkey]

I'm not a groomer but I work with them part time. A lot of the dogs with biting problems on the table calm down after they have been neutered. There are some that are not allowed back and some have notes they are willing to try again once the dog is neutered

[megan]

Wow, I'm impressed at the difference in his behavior. I wonder if the neutering PLUS the additional bonus of him not being near the other dog helped in conjunction...? Maybe he just really didn't like that other dog and that caused his anxiety level to be raised so high that his other insecurities came out as well? Trigger stacking sort of thing. Other dog + intact + shelter env + deaf put him way over threshold, and taking the trigger dog away and removing his peanuts brought him down a level. I don't remember, did you mention how long he'd been at the shelter...?

Either way, I do tend to agree that your initial assessment wasn't a bad one. Any dog displaying aggressive behavior towards people is a risk. Certainly, that big of a change after being neutered isn't the norm, at least, not as far as I know...

[maryellen]

Thats a big change. Maybe megan is right dog removed neutered and deaf were all working against him

[maryellen]

Oh and i too agreed on ur original assessment too so dont feel bad

[melonie]

He has been there around 4 to 6 weeks. I can't remember, the days all run into each other.
He is still very much DA or selective. There is a new impounded dog that came in last night, I think she may be in heat as she has the two new unfixed dogs in a snit, and even though Snow can not see her, he will stare off in the direction that she's in like he's waiting to pounce. Pretty sure he'd make her a snack. (she's a min pin looking mix)

[RealPitBull]

When you're working in shelters and doing evals all you have to go on is what you see at the moment, most of the time we don't have extended periods to really look at a dog. I think your first eval based on what you saw was correct. You can't hope he'll get better and ignore the behavior you see - you have to assume WYSIWYG. That's one of the limitations of evals in shelters. And ya know, it goes BOTH ways. A dog could eval really nicely in a shelter and be a totally different dog at home.

(This is one reason I think it's really crappy to eval Pit Bulls and PitMixes in shelters and if you don't see dog-directed aggression you send them home with out letting new adopters know of the breed potential, ala "pit bull type/no such thing" people. I digress...)

Neutering can certainly help. I agree with what the others have said, it was probably a combo of things causing stress in this dog. However, I'd still be cautious in placing him, still probably do a no-kid home, and no-dog home. IOW, don't totally discount your initial feelings/observations. Still proceed with caution.

[melonie]

I would not trust him with a minor. Only a responsible adult with deaf dog experience or bull breed experience with the willingness to give what it would take to train him, and keep him safe. And no other pets of course.


Sent from my XT881 using proboards