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Post by AmyJo27 on Feb 13, 2014 0:49:29 GMT -5
Today I experienced the WORST dog fight I have ever seen my entire life. Copola (Presa Canario) and Capone got into it. Im too exhausted to go into details right now but long story short, it was a death fight and Capone ended up very, very beat up. These 2 males have never liked each other but always dealt with each other, Today was the breaking point. I was all alone when the fight broke out and honestly thought Copola was going to kill Capone. I have read every article on how to properly break up a dog fight and NOTHING worked…. Was absolutely horrible. I was luckily only bite once. I need opinions…….. I don’t know what to do… I have had Capone since he was a little puppy and I've had Copola for a few months. They both have their egos and masculine pride. Its obvious after this event, they are NEVER going to be allowed together again. My first initial thought after all was said and done was I want Copola gone tonight. I was frazzled and overwhelmed. Then I got to thinking about it and my husband and I talked and we don’t know what to do. I know with dog aggressive dogs, crate and rotating works…. So I thought maybe wed just crate and rotate them… My feelings on this are- 1. I feel horrible for them having to be crated like that, Our dogs are always loose with us. 2. The What ifs, what if a single slip up happens and one of our daughters (2 & 5 year olds) end up in the middle of it… Our kids would either be dead or in surgery with the way these 2 bite each other. And my 3rd thought is Capone has increasingly gotten ‘different’ Hes snarky with me and has an attitude to him towards people. I cant help but to wonder if this is due to Copolas presence ?!?! And many of my dog friends are advising me not to risk it and give up Copola. I am torn as to what to do… Copola has really made his way into our hearts. I don’t want anyone to get hurt or Capone to be hurt like this again (Hes shredded up badly) but don’t want to give Copola up either!! Ugh…. Any advice?! What is the right thing to do here….. I feel at this point like we got 1 dog too many and I've let everyone down. Cant stop beating myself up over this What a day its been…
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Post by AmyJo27 on Feb 13, 2014 0:57:11 GMT -5
Copola & Capone LITERALLY a couple weeks ago Idk where everything went sooo wrong! There was nothing to resource guard, nothing unusual about today.... My mind is blown..
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Post by melonie on Feb 13, 2014 1:21:30 GMT -5
All it takes is one wrong look to ruin the harmony. I'm glad no one was seriously hurt... how are the dogs doing? Winston and Cleveland will snark on each other every now and then. I keep a pretty close eye on them, and if one of them seems to be "off", he'll get to spend some time in the bedroom or the crate. Neither of them mind, that's how I know it was needed.
Accidents do happen during crate and rotate, it can be a pain in the butt. You just have to be diligent and everyone adhere to the rules.
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Post by AmyJo27 on Feb 13, 2014 1:34:45 GMT -5
Capone is not good.... His ear was dam near ripped off... His head, neck, front legs, back and back legs are full of bite wounds and lacerations. His front left shoulder was dislocated and now its very swollen. He has to go back in to the vet Friday to check on things again... Copola just has 3 mild lacerations on his front legs and a tear inside his mouth.
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Post by AmyJo27 on Feb 13, 2014 1:40:07 GMT -5
Capone and Bola snark at each other from time to time. No blood is drawn, its a lot of barking and growling then done. This fight was dead silent and my horse pasture (Which is where this happened) Looks like a crime scene.... Im soo shook up by it still. This is the first fight Ive witnessed that was virtually impossible to stop. If Capone hadnt been tied up when this fight broke out, I fear he would be dead right now. I stood at the end of Capones tied out holding Copola by his back legs for a lllloooonnngggg time as they just stood there holding onto each others necks.... There was nothing I could do until they finally let go and I was able to pull Copola (Whose at least 120 pounds) out of Capones reach....
It was absolutely horrible, I kept thinking Capone was going to die...
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Post by maryellen on Feb 13, 2014 7:01:59 GMT -5
You can do a room/ rotate for now until you decide what to do. Presas are known for same sex DA, as well as pitbulls with same sex DA.. Think carefully if you are going to rehome one and honestly rehome the one who is the better of the two- if you go that route find the right home and adopt one out. Until then room/rotate or crate / rotate. The dogs will get used to it so dont worry about it. Fights suck big time.
Keep them apart from now on no matter how well they look like they want to be friends...
Both dogs are maturing so this is to be expected for them to now fight.
Im soo sorry you had to go thru this
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Post by maryellen on Feb 13, 2014 7:04:47 GMT -5
Also, you said they never liked each other in your first post- that right there says it all- its been there since day one that these two didnt like each other... A fight was inevitable it was just a matter of time until they both started maturing
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Post by suziriot on Feb 13, 2014 7:36:47 GMT -5
Ditto to what ME said. I'm so sorry Amy. Fights are so awful. I agree with ME that from what you've said, it does seem like a fight was inevitable.
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Post by adoptapitbull on Feb 13, 2014 9:04:30 GMT -5
I'm sorry, Amy Jo :/
Having multiple dogs can be like a game of Russian roulette. When you have breeds that are prone to DA, it seems like there are more crappy chances than good.
Capone is getting to that age when I think he's tolerating other dogs less and less. I don't know how old Copola is, but if he's a "take no s#%^" kinda dog, it sounds to me like this is just the beginning. And now that they've gotten in at it once, they are more prone to do it again. They may even become fear aggressive to the point of aggression at the sight of the other dog. It has happened here with Snorts and the boys. Snorts can see the other 2 if they are crated and he is loose, but if it's the other way around, he gets very growly and would fight if I let him out.
For now, you must keep a strict C&R program. I do a lot of "room and rotate" here where the dogs are only crated when I'm leaving the house, otherwise they are loose in different rooms. They know now which rooms are theirs and would not go into the other dogs' room without much hesitation. It does work. It just sucks to have to do it.
I'd have a sit down with the girls, now, regarding what happened and how they are NEVER EVER to touch the dogs if they fight. If the dogs fight, run to tell mommy/daddy and then go to your room and shut the door.
I hope things settle and that the dogs are OK. Keep your head up. You'll get through this!
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Post by catstina on Feb 13, 2014 15:59:14 GMT -5
Here is Saxon and Dom about a month before they got into it: Here's just two weeks before: How they were before the fight doesn't matter, they will never be together again. The next time Dom could kill Saxon, he could have killed him the first time. I won't give him the chance to do it again. I advise you to do the same. I, personally, would probably rehome the Presa. You've had Capone longer and he was fine until you brought Copola into the home. I, personally, would not feel comfortable dealing with a DA/DR/DS dog of that size with two young children in the home. Until you decide for sure, they need to be kept separated. I am so glad both dogs are ok and you weren't seriously hurt. Don't beat yourself up. You were right there and you were able to break it up. You saved Capone and you will keep this from happening again because you are a responsible dog owner and you are awesome. Thinking of you, girlie!
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Post by melonie on Feb 13, 2014 16:05:05 GMT -5
Poor Capone. Glad he was tied, otherwise it would have not been good. Scary sh!t that's for sure.
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Post by suziriot on Feb 13, 2014 16:30:48 GMT -5
Well since we're sharing pictures of dogs that were BFFs before they almost slaughtered one another LOL.... Barley, Lebowski, and Otis. Looking at this picture actually makes me sick to my stomach, because thinking of what would happen now makes me FREAK. OUT. Lebowski tried to rip out Otis' throat a few weeks after this was taken. Otis and Lebowski loved each other so much, they were inseparable... until Lebowski turned 1 year old. Crate and rotate works for us because we make it work. It's not easy, and requires constant vigilance. But it becomes the new normal. I admit that I live in constant fear of mistakes and slip-ups. We don't really travel because there is literally ONE person that we trust to manage them other than ourselves. Even then I worry the whole time. And mistakes do happen. We've had three slip-ups in almost 5 years of living this way. We were VERY LUCKY in all three incidents. I don't have kids, so I can't really speak to how I would manage this with small children in the house. To be honest, I don't think I would. But only you and your husband can make that call.
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Post by suziriot on Feb 13, 2014 16:35:21 GMT -5
Oh, and I should clarify that we do room/rotate, not crate/rotate. We have the space to be able to do that, and Lebowski actually likes being alone when he sleeps so he doesn't whine to be with us at night. They're only crated when we're not home.
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Post by megan on Feb 13, 2014 16:55:58 GMT -5
Ugh, I'm so sorry this happened It sucks, but absolutely, as everyone has said, keep them separated moving forward, regardless of the decision you make. My experience is that crate (or room) and rotate isn't for everyone. While I understand why many people advocate for "never giving up your dog," I am not in a position to crate and rotate and if I were in your situation, one of the dogs would have to be re-homed. We tried C&R with Roxy and another dog (who was the aggressor) for a short time, but he continued to escalate and attempt to get through doors at her, and Roxy backslid tremendously in her fear. It was almost like she was depressed. I couldn't allow it to continue, it was unfair to both dogs. However, some dogs do ABSOLUTELY find in C&R situations. But at the end of the day, YOU and YOUR FAMILY have to be comfortable with the situation, and have to be comfortable managing the situation. Definitely sit down and have a conversation with the kids as to what to do if sometimes is to happen between the dogs (i.e. run to tell mom/dad and go close themselves in a room). Even if you plan to re-home one of the dogs, your kids should have a "plan" because management can fail, and management does fail, no matter how hard we try. First and foremost, your kids need to know what to do to keep safe. Then sit down and figure out what you and your family is prepared to do and see if it's possible to keep both dogs. If not, make the decision that is right for you and your family and the dogs. At the end of the day, this situation sucks regardless of what you do, so do what is going to be best for everyone.
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Dog Fight.
Feb 14, 2014 11:25:06 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by AmyJo27 on Feb 14, 2014 11:25:06 GMT -5
ME Copola is the worst of the 2 he's gotten into scuffles with Bola and Bola is as submissive and easy going as they come. My biggest fear if I rehomed Capone and kept Copola is that Copola would get aggressive with Bola. Bola is old and doesn't fight back, Copola would easily kill him. :/
There were no issues prior to Copola. I'm struggling with this decision and my husband isn't really giving me much feedback ( he's closest to Capone and Copola ) so I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place!!
I want to keep them both and crate and rotate but I just don't know if my household can handle it. :/ A friend of mine swears she can train a dog aggressive dog not to be dog aggressive and its not that I don't believe in her, I'm just scared. This fight really shook me up. I feel sooo lucky that I got them seperated. I don't know if I'd be so lucky next time by myself.
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Dog Fight.
Feb 14, 2014 11:26:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by AmyJo27 on Feb 14, 2014 11:26:07 GMT -5
Thank you all for the feedback too btw! I wish there were absolutes with this and I knew what the future would bring with what ever choice I made. Ugh!
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Post by suziriot on Feb 14, 2014 11:30:29 GMT -5
No offense meant to your friend, but you absolutely CANNOT "train" away dog aggression. True DA is not a behavior problem, it's a genetic trait. Everything you have said about Copola screams genetic DA to me. This is not a training issue, and to treat it as such would end in disaster.
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Post by catstina on Feb 14, 2014 12:19:30 GMT -5
I agree with Suzi 10000000%! I would not rehome him with someone who thinks they can train away his DA. If you rehome him, it should be with someone who knows the dangers involved and knows how to manage a DA dog. He is a BIG dog and should not go to someone who thinks they can train away his genetic traits. That is scary.
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Post by maryellen on Feb 14, 2014 13:00:52 GMT -5
Can you rehome Coppola since he is starting fights with bola? That might be the best to do. And honestly if you are already questioning your husband being able to handle crate/rotate thdn the answer is right in front of you - no he can't.... Rehome Coppola the pit and keep Capone the presa
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Post by maryellen on Feb 14, 2014 13:03:11 GMT -5
I mean rehome capola the press and keep Capone - and stop naming your dogs with the same initials lol!! Rehome the presa if he is starting fights.
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