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Post by lpyrbby on Nov 3, 2008 17:50:49 GMT -5
So, I think about this every now and again and wonder if our assumptions are correct or not. Here I am, asking for others thoughts because I don't want to misread things. Mia is my foster, a pretty intense, in your face kinda girl. She's confident in everything she does and it shows. She's a dominant dog. At our PBAD event, she got to meet this pretty lil pittie girl dressed up in a witch costume. Awesome girl Mia and Chey had their initial meeting and they started playing a little bit, Mia being the one doing most of the coaxing. We separated them a bit for no other reason than to talk to other people and let her owner check out things on our table. Well she comes back over with Chey and Mia is being her intense self. She's not being aggressive, just assertive. Chey is more laid back in personality and really was content to just lay down next to her "mom" and hang out. So, I'm holding Mia, talking to Chey's owner while watching the dogs interact. Mia sniffs Chey, gives an invite to play and then turns and shoves her "goods" RIGHT in Chey's face. I'm talking straight up slut move! Mia turns back around, looks at Chey, then turns around again and offers her butt to Chey. Not once but REPEATEDLY. I had pulled Mia back a short distance to keep her out of Chey's personal space and she still persisted. We are of the opinion that Mia was telling Chey to check her out, get up, and PLAY. Are we looking at this in the wrong manner? I have NEVER in my life seen a dog throw their stuff in another dog's face like that, and then keep insisting that the other dog check her out. Chey remained laying during the whole thing but no stink eye, no grumbles, no stiff body, nothing really. She moved backwards the very first time but that had a lot to do with Mia's "in your face" move that she pulled. I probably shouldn't laugh about it but I can't lie that the mental image of Mia throwing herself at this girl cracks me up! So, does this "move" mean something other than what we think it does? Obviously, its not something that we'll allow Mia to do and keep doing because inevitably, some dog out there will get sick of her persistence lol. But is it reasonable to believe that that is what Mia was telling this other dog? To, "Hey, we're cool! See? *insert shoving of goods in face here* Let's Play"? This has got to be one of the strangest questions I've ever asked lol!
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Post by maryellen on Nov 3, 2008 21:03:15 GMT -5
ruby shoves her goods in rufus's face ALL the time.. she will even do it laying down by going on her back laying down and toss her booty in his face, then throw her back legs over rufus's face... she will do it constantly while they play.. and she is spayed ....
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Post by lpyrbby on Nov 3, 2008 21:52:41 GMT -5
ruby shoves her goods in rufus's face ALL the time.. she will even do it laying down by going on her back laying down and toss her booty in his face, then throw her back legs over rufus's face... she will do it constantly while they play.. and she is spayed .... Lol! See, Deja will do that to Cyrus all the time, I think what threw me off guard was Mia's sheer insistence and her very confident assertion to Chey, "Hey here I am! Sniff it!" The way Mia did it was straight pRon style lol!
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Post by maryellen on Nov 4, 2008 7:47:06 GMT -5
i have no idea why they do it, hopefully mary or someone else can explain it.
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 4, 2008 8:13:52 GMT -5
I'm suprised it was two females involved, not so odd for a female to do it to a male, even when the female is spayed. I also think it's dominant/pushy behavior; to keep shoving a body part into another dog's space is definitely a "I demand satisfaction!" kind of move on the part of the dog doing the shoving. Whatever she wanted, she felt like she could get it by being pushy and throwin her stuff around ;D
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Nov 23, 2008 0:42:26 GMT -5
Hi! I know this was posted some time back but I'm new to the forum and poking around. I've observed this behavior before on several occasions and my own two do it to each other sometimes. (Both pediatric altered littermates). On one hand, presenting the "rear" (for lack of a better word) is a great signal to the other dog that they are comfortable in their presence and not concerned or worried about them as a threat. I've also interpreted this behavior as an invitation to play. Along with all the choppy, quick play bows, whirligig tail, jolty movements, pinned ears, tightened mouth, etc. It seems to be part of the "play with me!" repitiore. I have also evaluated many a dog which has done anal swipes and rubs and plants which I consider "possession" behaviors. Facing away from a handler, especially in a not-so-social dog is a red flag for me. Sitting on my foot, leaning on me, backing their rear into my leg...I consider these confident behaviors which are essentially "marking" me as their possession. In some instances, I have seen this in seemingly confident (bullying attitude type) dogs do it to other dogs. We've all seen the dog that will make physical contact (shoulder to shoulder, paw slung over the back, etc) which in many cases is a precursor to mounting. But I've also seen it where one dogs literally backs his/her rear into the face of another dog. Usually this seems to illicite play, albeit many times inappropriate on one dog's part, but sometimes I've seen it as an appeasing behavior, especially if the offended dog refuses to entertain the pushy butt. To me, Mia doesn't sound much like a dominant dog (as much as I try to not use that term), she sounds more to me like she's trying every tool in her box to get some doggie interaction but isn't very good at reading body language and declines. My Jazz comes across as very confident, intense but she's really quite the opposite. It's all bluff...she's afraid and with the "I'll get them before they get me" angle. I wouldn't worry about it too much and you're probably exactly right that she was trying to illicite play with Chey based on her other behaviors. Sounds like she simply really wants to play but doesn't want to take no for an answer. If it's something you want to work on, I'd suggest working on "enough" and "settle" and "leave" cues. I also love it when other dogs do my dirty work for me and help teach a young one when enough is enough. Appropriately and under supervision, of course. Once getting "told off" by a seasoned and well timed adult will stick in the offender's head for a looong time. Not something you'd want to push at an event, of course.
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Post by lpyrbby on Nov 23, 2008 8:15:51 GMT -5
This is very true about Mia. She's clueless to reading body language appropriately. But, I still do think she's a more "dominant" ( I don't really like the term either) dog. She's bossy, strong-willed, fearless (with the exception of the thumpthump of skateboards on sidewalks), and will run someone's house if she's allowed the opportunity. Those are things to me that signify a more dominant dog. Maybe share your definition? I'd like to see where there could be some misinterpretation I'm kinda glad you resurrected this thread as I have another curious question that I've been too lazy to search for. Just for clarification, Mia is approximately 2 years old. So, she's not a puppy per say. Penny is approximately 5 months. I've caught Mia "mouthing" Penny's snout. If I remember correctly, this is something that the momma dogs will do to their puppies, but I can't remember "why?" Mia will put her whole mouth over Penny's snout and just mouth it. She's not trying to eat her snout off lol and will either do it from more of the front of Penny's snout or from directly over top of Penny's snout. Now, to the best of my knowledge, Mia has never had pups and is currently spayed. I know it won't necessarily make a difference, just trying to paint a picture lol. Mia is definitely an interesting dog to observe when she's interacting with other dogs!
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Nov 23, 2008 19:11:01 GMT -5
Hi! If I make no sense in my answer, I am miserably sick... In my opinion, Mia seems to be what some would refer to as a "status seeking" dog definitely *not* dominant. She hasn't a clue who she is, where she fits in or how to interact with other dogs. So instead of taking cues from them, she's pushes and eventually she will get told off. When this happens, depending on the severity, she will either fight back or retreat and give way. Dominance isn't something that is gained through bullying, force or constantly "dominating" the others. A dominant dog is obvious, rarely needs to assert him/herself and a submissive dog is obvious as well, appeasing and avoiding conflicts with physical body language. It's those dogs which fall in the middle that simply don't know where they fit in. www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/macho.htmI see glorious examples of the who's who in groups of off leash dogs and it's intriguing to watch the bonehead, frat boy kid running around trying to figure out how to interact, solicit play and which dogs are willing to take his innappropriateness. Here in my house (and I never think of status or rank, yadda yadda) Cajun is the one who gets the crumb that hits the floor, Jasmine defers to him. Cajun also pees over her marking...not vice versa. And with simply a look, Jasmine will move out of Cajun's space. But at my friend's home, who boards dogs in her house and owns 4 of her own, Cajun is the most obsequious pit bull you'd ever see, grovelling and lip licking of the other dogs there, soliciting whoreish play ( ). I think so many people try and figure it out, name it, label it, etc that taking it for what it is is overlooked. If a dog shows puppy play and invites other dogs to play, I would safely pair her with an older, playful, appropriate dog (a play ground monitor, per se) and allow this dog to get some canine lessons on what is too much. As for her mouthing the puppies muzzle, dogs don't have opposable thumbs which limits them to their mouths, paws and limbs to physically interact with others. This again, sounds like play. But, I would strongly suggest that you monitor this closely and redirect Mia away from the puppy at the first sign of the puppies discomfort. Sometimes, puppies will get sick of the banter and attempt to tell the dog off but the other dog simply goes right back in for more play. Not healthy for either. I wouldn't put too much thought into why she mouths the pup's muzzle, it likely has little to do with motherly instincts. And if you really think about it, the only time a dam usually snarks at a puppy is if it is encrouching on her food, annoying the fire out of her or lands a bite too hard. Mom doesn't waste energy on lessons that don't directly affect her resources. Again, *why* Mia does this is not as important as what to do about or if it necessitates your intervention. She sounds like a cool girl, just needs to figure out what her place is in this world.
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Post by maryellen on Nov 23, 2008 20:46:32 GMT -5
rufus will put rubys muzzle in his mouth to get her to settle down if she is playing to rough, and when he does this she immediately settles down. she loves throwing her butt in his face, and will even backup to his face and lift her back leg and shove her privates into his face as well.. dogs are just weird
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Post by lpyrbby on Nov 24, 2008 7:37:56 GMT -5
Hah! Guess I should have clarified more that I do redirect her attention when she does this. I've watched it for a couple of seconds, to confirm what I'm actually seeing, but beyond that, it's time out. And you are absolutely right that Mia is a cool girl She is one of THE best representatives of the breed we've seen in a while. She's fascinating to watch too as the majority of the time, she wears her emotions on her sleeve. She's inquisitive and watches everything with curiosity. She's just an awesome dog That's the fun part about working with multiple dogs over time, they help you expand your knowledge base. It's probably a bad habit of mine, but I like to know the "why's" of things. I probably think too much sometimes!
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