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Post by brandielee on Nov 20, 2008 13:34:51 GMT -5
I was wondering does playing rough with a pup (8 weeks) make them aggressive? I don't but my boyfriend does. Not to make him mean but just to play. I just want to ensure we do the right thing.
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 20, 2008 14:18:20 GMT -5
What does 'play with them rough" mean exactly? I don't advise using hands as play things, or anything like pushing, pining to the floor, grappling, biting, or anything of that nature. I also don't advise any game that involves the dog chasing the human and then catching the human and jumping/biting/nipping after the human is caught.
Acceptable play would be fetch, playing with chew/squeeky toys, and 'play training' (turning basic training principles into a lighthearted game).
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Nov 20, 2008 15:14:04 GMT -5
I personally roughhouse with my dogs and have since they were puppies. It allows me to teach a settle behavior, handling desensitization, bite inhibition, and enough cue and I do the same with tug. I would say as long as the play doesn't shift into escalated growly play or the puppy doesn't get too exciteable without heeding "enough" signals, I don't see a problem with it. Proper play is useful and an outlet for energy but use it as a training tool and not just for the fun of it. Puppies should be taught that human skin (and clothes count as skin) is the most fragile thing on earth and that teeth should not nip, bite or do more than touch. www.diamondsintheruff.com has some great articles regarding teaching puppies manners and foundation manners through play. I also agree that "dominance-based" type of play should be avoided. The puppy should not be held down against his will, muzzle shouldn't be held, play should be upbeat and fun, not teaching the puppy predatory and combative games. Also, keep the puppy physically safe. Many people want to tug with their puppies but jerk the toy (and head/neck) from side to side which can injure the neck. If he plays tug with the puppy, allow the puppy to do most of the pulling and if he pulls, do it in a straight line, keeping the neck level and straight. Get the book Before and After You Get Your Puppy by Ian Dunbar (available at and check out some of the other dog-friendly puppy books there. Play should be used as a learning experience, it's why puppies play within a litter and with each other, for preparation for adulthood (and b/c it's fun) but bad manners can be learned if done incorrectly. Be sure to learn as much as possible about bite inhibition and how to teach it NOW and for life! I can't stress this enough. Very important for all dogs to have a strongly inhibited bite.
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 20, 2008 15:23:33 GMT -5
AWESOME post, Jessica. Two thumbs up ;D
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Post by brandielee on Nov 20, 2008 15:56:02 GMT -5
He plays with the pup with his hands as far as gently 'pushing' him, moving his head and getting him a excited to where he barks and growls. I really don't like it so I would love help in backing up my theory of this not being a good thing.
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 20, 2008 15:57:50 GMT -5
Bring him on over to the forum, LOL! That kind of play isn't a good idea.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Nov 20, 2008 16:22:46 GMT -5
If he is encouraging the puppy to bark and growl I'd like to know in your opinion if the puppy is doing so to further illicit play or if he seems irritated and stressed (ears pinned, eyes averted, freezing and attempting to walk away) or if he's actively engaging in roughhousing with the boyfriend. Cajun was a growly puppy and still has a loud play growl. That's normal. Encouraging growls in a non-growly pup is encouraging him to growl when it isn't appropriate. Your boyfriend needs to understand that while it may be cute and funny to him now, it won't be so much when he has a 60 pound dog wanting to bark, growl and mouth him as he was conditioned to do. Play more appropriate games such and the games outlined in Sue Ailsby's training levels: www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/%20Dog1/levels.htmlThis type of roughhousing isn't teaching the puppy anything and there are other fun games to play which will also teach your puppy manners and proper behaviors. By the way, I forgot that Dunbar's puppy book is online for free: tinyurl.com/56bflhScroll down to page 99 for specific info on roughhousing.
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 20, 2008 17:08:17 GMT -5
OMG off topic, but I LOVE Sue Ailsby's site. It is so fabulous! ;D
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Nov 20, 2008 19:44:29 GMT -5
I love the training levels, too! We adopted a young mastiff/ambull x to a young couple and they immediately started on the training levels. This pup got a fabulous, positive start and was so receptive and the best thing, the pup and the couple had fun training! The puppy is now 8 months old with a fantastic foundation and reliable cues...even more important b/c he's pushing 100 pounds! I'm so proud of them!
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 21, 2008 8:17:23 GMT -5
I would love to do levels classes a la Sue's recommendations, but I am having trouble wrapping my mind around how to set it up, exactly. I'm soooo used to linear, 6 - 8 wk classes. Anyhoo, the stuff she's got on that site is fantabulous! ;D
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Nov 21, 2008 11:11:26 GMT -5
I think that's where many dog/puppy owners get lost...they only train during class, don't do the homework and feel that training should be done in scheduled sessions. I see this during puppy and manners classes at the beginning of class when we ask how the puppy has done during the week since last class. Many owners just say fine, but that they haven't really worked with the dog. I train my dogs every day but during real life activities. I rarely train on leash, I just do stuff throughout the day which mimics play or NILIF methods. If they ring the bell to go out, they must sit and wait before going out the door...if they follow me to the kitchen, I ask them to lie down until I'm done in there...sometimes we play hide n seek, practice targeting, learn new tricks, etc. Anytime my dogs are in sight is a training opp. One of my biggest pet peeves is the fact that owners focus so much on the undesired things their dogs do but rarely notice or reward when the dog is sitting or lying down nicely. I cannot drill that in enough! Pay attention to your dog and reward him/her when he's not bugging the fire out of you!
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Post by RealPitBull on Nov 21, 2008 11:48:28 GMT -5
Oh yes, lack of follow-through after class is over is a big problem. I'm sure most trainers will tell you the same thing. I know most owners aren't going to allot much time for structured training sessions each day, so I tell them to incorporat the training into their daily routines.
I'm big on 'focus on what he's doing RIGHT, not what he's doing WRONG" and teaching incompatible behaviors. And dogs are ALWAYS learning - there is no such thing as 'non-training time' as far as dogs are concerned, so ya better make sure what the dog is learning at any given point in time - even during play - is what you want him learning and repeating down the line.
I'm a big fan of 'sit n wait', and think it's one of the most valuable things an owner can do with their dog; I teach it as a verison of 'doggie zen', where the dog is presented with an intesting item, but only gets that item when acceptable leave-it behavior is shown. There are also soooo many interesting little things you can do with your dog throughout the day that are beneficial beyond measure, yet end up becoming wrote so you don't even notice you're doing them anymore (i.e. asking my dog to sit for things, go-to-place, watch-me, etc throughout the day is like second nature).
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Nov 21, 2008 12:13:35 GMT -5
Exactly! I love seeing an owner "get it" when the dog's lightbulb goes off...I feel like I'm hijacking this thread.
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