lola1
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Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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HELP!
Dec 1, 2008 16:54:06 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Dec 1, 2008 16:54:06 GMT -5
I'm recently having a problem with my dogs jumping. My 8 mo old female never used to, until we got our 1 yr old male, who is a rescue. They really only jump when we've been gone for a while and they are being let out of their crates. They are both insane when coming out of their crates. Usually I just put them outside to potty, and by the time they come in they are calmed down. Today though, I was trying to get a hold of my females collar and as I was bending down, she was jumping up. Needless to say, I now am bleeding and bruised from the collision. I did not punish her, as it is my fault for waiting to fix the problem. Any suggestions would be wonderful. I am planning on Obedience classes in the new year as well.
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Dec 1, 2008 19:05:22 GMT -5
Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 1, 2008 19:05:22 GMT -5
Hi Lola! My first suggestion is usually difficult for owners to follow through with but it should make a difference. Specifically when they are crated and you come home, ignore them and go about your business for a few minutes. If they are keyed up while in their crate, you should wait until they are calm to allow them out. If your hand reached to open the crate and they get all excited, step away until they have calmed again. Eventually they will offer calmer reactions once they get the idea that by wriggling, yipping and pawing isn't working. It will take several repetitions of reaching towards the crate door, them getting excited and you removing yourself before they eventually realize that by them remaining calm (self-control) that you will only allow them out if they respond in a calmer manner. I would also only allow one of them out of the crate and immediately outside at a time. Once one dog is outside, go back and do the same thing with the other, only allowing him/her out when they are calm/er. Once they get the hang of this (that being calm earns the reward of being let out) you can begin to cue them verbally to "wait" (or down/sit/whatever you like) and as you slowly open the crate door, close it again if they act up (walking away and trying again within a few seconds). It is very difficult for owners to not shower their dogs with affection upon arriving home as if the dogs deserve tons of affection because of our absence. By doing this, it further encourages them to be overly excited and in turn, bloody our noses! You an also practice mock trials of leaving. Going through the paces of your normal routine such as gathering your purse, keys, etc but only walk out for a few minutes, coming back in, ignoring them and waiting for them to gain their composure again before being allowed out. This is desensitizing them to the initial excitement of the entire routine and will teach them that only when they respond appropriately that they will earn rewards, whether it's play in the yard or affection. Giving them fun stuff to do in their crates upon you leaving will also keep them calmer if you are having an issue at that time. If you are having jumping issues at other times (visitors, during the day, etc) there are some effective and positive methods you can employ to reduce and eliminate this, as well. The more they are allowed to do this the more reinforced it will be. I would suggest working on teaching an auto or default sit and to remove all rewards (negative and positive) when they do jump. This will include turning away, removing yourself from them, waiting them out and rewarding immediately when they have four on the floor. Here are some links which I hope will help; www.diamondsintheruff.com/jumpup.htmlwww.dogmanners.com/Jumping.htmwww.barkbytes.com/training/jump.htmGood luck!
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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HELP!
Dec 1, 2008 19:31:41 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Dec 1, 2008 19:31:41 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the suggestions. Now I have to get my other half on board. He thinks it's OK for them to jump. That's because he's quite tall and hasn't been injured by them. Also, I really would hate to have them injure a friend or someone else. Thanks again.
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HELP!
Dec 1, 2008 20:58:46 GMT -5
Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 1, 2008 20:58:46 GMT -5
Be sure to tell your other half that people (general public) do not view this breed as others and simply jumping can be perceived as aggression. As pibble owners, we must do everything we can to make our dogs as lovely as possible to help change that perception. Plus...he should NOT think this is okay considering YOU have been hurt. Would he allow a buddy of his to come in and shove you to the floor? Probably not. It would be a disservice to you and to him so the dogs should be no less. A 4 lb poodle jumping on people is *cute* (not really) a 50 lb pit bull jumping on people is vicious. That's just how they are viewed. And even if the other half doesn't see the value in working on this, that shouldn't stop you. You have the opportunity of changing their behavior towards yourself but also towards other people. When he's the only one they jump on, maybe he'll reconsider. You work on this and be sure that we are all here to support you. It's very hard to try to enforce rules when the person you live with doesn't, or worse, doesn't see the point. So if you need some moral support, let us know!
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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HELP!
Dec 1, 2008 21:06:46 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Dec 1, 2008 21:06:46 GMT -5
Thank you, I definitely plan on working on this myself. In fact, he got home a while ago and I told him what happened and he said that it would be mean to leave them there until they calmed down. It will take a bit of time but he will come around. You are totally right too, he wouldn't let any person hurt me, why should our dogs be able to. Thanks so much.
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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HELP!
Dec 2, 2008 5:24:30 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Dec 2, 2008 5:24:30 GMT -5
OK Jessica my other half has a stupid question. Please humor me with this. His question is do you allow your dogs (APBT) to sleep in your bed. He seems to think that it makes a difference in how to train dogs ie. APBT's. He thinks that that makes a difference in how to train them.
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Dec 2, 2008 8:48:23 GMT -5
Post by RealPitBull on Dec 2, 2008 8:48:23 GMT -5
My dog sleeps in my bed, but on my terms. For instance, he comes up when I tell him, and jumps off when I tell him too. I don't have a problem with dogs on furniture as long as there is
a) no aggression related to the furniture
and
b) the dog understands off and on cues and heeds those cues.
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HELP!
Dec 3, 2008 20:19:34 GMT -5
Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 3, 2008 20:19:34 GMT -5
Hey Lola!
Allowing dogs onto the bed/furniture has nothing to do with *how* they are trained. My dogs are allowed on the furniture and on the bed, but like Mary said, only when invited and they immediately get down when told.
What's important here is that you have control over when they are allowed and when not.
For instance: I adore my dogs in my bed, my husband not so much. But if we are lying in bed with the bedroom door open and one (or both) come in with the intention to sleep on the bed, I only need to clear my throat/say "out" or snap my fingers and they understand that getting in the bed is off limits. They simply turn away and walk out (and go get on the sofa or recliner).
So many owners feel the need to *control* their dogs and physically manipulate them to gain such control and it's really not necessary.
Big time tv trainer folks have drilled into our heads that a dog that wants on the furniture is *dominating* them...bullocks!
Personally, my dogs are welcome in my bed and Cajun is an under the covers type of guy while Jazz is a curl into a ball on top type of girl. When my husband plays gigs and is gone all night, my dogs are in the bed. When he's home, his fave (Jazz) is usually curled up at our feet...Caj is in the recliner or in one of the kid's beds.
But at any given time, we determine when they are welcome and when they are not.
Repetition, consistently of cues is imperative.
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Dec 3, 2008 20:22:13 GMT -5
Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 3, 2008 20:22:13 GMT -5
Geez, I CANNOT SPELL!!!!
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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HELP!
Dec 4, 2008 1:59:26 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Dec 4, 2008 1:59:26 GMT -5
Thank you, first of all for, even humoring the question. I also believe that whatever I do with my dogs is MY decision, NOT the dogs. We do let them sleep with us. For some reason he thinks that anyone involved in rescue has different priorities. The lady we got our rescue from had 9 other "pit bulls" and couldn't let them all out at the same time, as well as could not let them out at night while she was sleeping. Somehow, based on that, he feels that any person who "rescues" does not have the liberty/want to bring these wonderful animals into their hearts. I, however, get it, and have already put your suggestions into practice, with good results. He was actually surprised by the results, and therefore, will probably get on board soon.
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HELP!
Dec 4, 2008 11:34:42 GMT -5
Post by emilys on Dec 4, 2008 11:34:42 GMT -5
"he said that it would be mean to leave them there until they calmed down."
Your husband sounds very sweet, but... this is the kind of attitude that turns nice dogs into out of control monsters. Dogs NEED (and ultimately want) structure and rules. It's actually one of the few messages CesarM preaches that we all agree with. It's the essence of the "Nothing in Life is Free" method. As well as the "Doggie Zen" technique: to get something, you have to give something up.
Most dogs, because they are so people oriented, LOVE to learn things that please us (and which get them a reward, of food, playtime, toy, attention.. the key is to figure out what your DOG likes. Don't make assumptions about what the dog thinks is a reward. For a dog, learning is often its own reward. But most importantly, a trained dog is a GOOD dog, and a good dog is a loved dog. A dog you can have fun taking out into the world and which will be a credit to you and to our breed.
Teaching your dogs to control themselves when they are excited is one of the most important gifts you can give them, and yourself, and not just because, as others have said, a jumping pit bull can seem like a scary monster.
Your dogs will learn to calm down IN AN INSTANCE if you enforce it. Dogs learn amazingly fast when they want something... and when they learn they will get it only if they perform a certain behavior. Just wait them out. Don't say anything. The second one dog is calm, you can let him out, but not before.
Suggest to your husband that if he likes a dog jumping up on him, then he should TEACH it as a behavior. Like getting on the bed, the dog can jump up ONLY when invited to do so.
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HELP!
Dec 4, 2008 12:23:28 GMT -5
Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 4, 2008 12:23:28 GMT -5
I agree, however I don't believe that dogs "want to please us". I agree with Donaldson's theory as she so eloquently put it in the Culture Clash. But that's another thread. One thing I would like to suggest to you and I see it over and over again til my head explodes... Do not focus simply on what you DON'T want them to do. They don't know what you expect of them. Everything they do is perfectly normal dog behavior and punishing them for it is not communicating your wishes. It basically impedes learning. Instead, reduce the occurance of the behaviors (by not rewarding when they do something you don't want) and reward when they ARE doing what you want. The jumping thing can be difficult with some dog owners because they think that if they can just make the behavior unpleasant (kneeing, popping on the nose, pushing them down, etc) that it will eliminate it. Instead, the dog is still getting unintended attention. Negative attention is a reward to the dog. They are still getting touched, interaction, spoken to, etc. If you eliminate all of that and become a boring post...the dog won't get much out of jumping on you. But the key is to immediately reward when the dog offers even a second of what you want. As soon as the feet hit the floor, then reward, they'll pop right back up so you remove verbal and physical interaction, turn your back or walk off. Your dog WILL get it and you will see it when he does. But just don't forget to reward and praise them when they are being pleasant and calm. People focus so much on the undesired behavior that I continuously have to remind owners (who are not observing their dogs) to reward as Fido sits nicely beside them. The owner only seems to feel the need to interact when the dog is doing what they don't want.
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HELP!
Dec 4, 2008 14:25:32 GMT -5
Post by emilys on Dec 4, 2008 14:25:32 GMT -5
ok, I did!
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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HELP!
Dec 4, 2008 19:31:04 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Dec 4, 2008 19:31:04 GMT -5
"he said that it would be mean to leave them there until they calmed down."
Yes, he said that, and I told him that he was not helping them any by allowing that behavior, and that there is not a choice as far as whether or not we will be changing that behavior. I also told him that we can very well train them to jump when we want them to. I feel like I'm training him as well. LOL
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HELP!
Dec 5, 2008 1:13:36 GMT -5
Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 5, 2008 1:13:36 GMT -5
I feel like I'm training him as well. LOL Oh yes, you are! And believe me, books and articles have been written on the topic of training husbands/significant others/kids via these methods! I think you really "get it" when it comes to our advice. Specifically, training what you want by cueing behavior in order to harness it. For example: Sometimes when dog owners have a chatty, barky or vocal dog. Instead of trying to eliminate the vocal behavior, training a cue to speak/bark allows the ability to train an "off" cue. It gives you the ability to have an "off" switch. I'm fortunate that neither of my dogs are really vocal (aside from Cajun being a play growler) but our previous pit bull was barky. Instead of trying to train her *not* to bark, I trained her to speak on cue and that allowed me to train her to *stop* barking, as well. Sometimes I do miss having a barker. One of the best ways to cut a phone conversation short is to give the "speak" hand signal and lie that I must get off the phone b/c someone's at the door. LOL
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