96 Pit Bulls "Siezed" in OK

[DiamondTiger]

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the media forum. It may have already been posted and my tired eyes just missed it. If it's already up, please do as you wish with this thread Mary.

What is UP with these people??? So many HUGE busts happening. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad people are stepping up to show that they care. I just can't fathom why, after all the attention the Vick case brought... anyone in their right mind would think they could get away with this @#*%! Leave our dogs alone! Buy a pet rock!

www.koco.com/news/18197856/detail.html

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Man Arrested On Animal Abuse Complaint

erry Southern, 32, Of Wichita, Kan., Arrested In Kay County

POSTED: 4:25 pm CST December 3, 2008
UPDATED: 6:33 pm CST December 3, 2008

NEWKIRK, Okla. -- A Kansas man has been arrested on animal abuse complaints after authorities in Kay County said they discovered nearly 100 neglected pit bulls at a rented farm near Newkirk.

VIDEO: Abused Pit Bulls Rescued In Kay County

Kay County Undersheriff Steve Kelley said Jerry Southern, 32, of Wichita, Kan., was arrested Tuesday and is being held in the Kay County Jail.

Kelley said his office received an anonymous tip that led to the discovery of 96 pit bulls. He says most of the dogs were chained to logs while about 10 were found locked in a barn with no food or water.

Southern told authorities he shows and sells the dogs but no one was buying them.

Kelley said his office is looking for organizations to help rescue the dogs and make food donations.

[lpyrbby]

Can someone give a synopsis of what the video said? I watched it, but since I remotely log in to my computer during the day from work, I don't have the luxury of sound lol

To be a little bit honest, I'm slightly miffed at the word abused that they are titling this story as. No one knows if they've been abused. And, physically, they don't totally look neglected either. Granted, they are probably loaded with worms and other things, but it doesn't look like they were starved.

LOL I guess that's just getting into the nit picky definitions of things and the connotations people have with some words. They're gonna think these dogs are damaged, when likely, that isn't the case.

*sigh* Synopsis please? I'm sure there's plenty of info i missed in the audio of the video.

[RealPitBull]

Well, I have neither sound nor remote access at work, and I am sooo limited to what I can do during the day online, so I'll have to check this out at home this evening, then I'll leave my feedback. I posted this in the news forum, and I'll keep it there but lock it, and we can keep the convo going here - because the subject of this story is definitely an 'issue' we need to be discussing.

[RealPitBull]

Ok, I watched the vid - the dogs don't look emaciated, or even all that thin. It certainly doesn't look like they were starved for two years. Having said that, they were certainly living in deplorable conditions - and I think they should be removed. NO dog should have to live like this.

I wanted to talk about these large-scale seizures of chained/kenneled Pit Bulls that we see so often. This is a controversial subject, because there are so many aspects to consider....

Many dogs (particularly Pit Bulls), live chained in crummy conditions for most of their lives. I find that abhorrant. If the dogs at least lived in clean yards and were appropriately cared for, that would be one thing and I wouldn't advocate removal by law enforcement (I will never forget one yard I was in - the dogs were kenneled and on chains, but it was the cleanest, most pristine yard I'd ever seen, and although I wouldn't want my dogs living outdoors like that, it would have been hard for even the biggest 'anti chaining advocate' to suggest the dogs would have been better off confiscated.)

In many/most places, keeping dogs chained in crappy conditions like I'm sure we've all seen some Pit Bulls kept in, is perfectly fine and acceptable and it seems most of the time, the law doesn't step in until the conditions can no longer be ignored OR the dogs are taken in because they owner is being charged with dog fighting.

I'm of the mindset that there are fates worse than death, and despite what SOME advocates believe, I would rather have abused/neglected/fought dogs taken in by authorities and euth'd than forced to languish for months or years and possibly be subjected to the brutality of dog fighting. Even when their owner has been acquitted after the fact, are the dogs, essentially, in some cases, 'better off dead'? Believe me, I think what happened to FB, for instance, was insanity and a violation of rights, BUT.........I admit that a part of me does wonder if those dogs, having only two possible fates - humane euthanasia or to be returned to FB - received the more humane fate.

Does any one else struggle with these difficult thoughts? The 'right' thing vs what may ultimately be best for the dogs?

As an aside, I would love to eventually see some sort of network of rescues that always keep room for a dog or two when large numbers of Pit Bulls are seized so that shelters/AC have people they can feel comfortable going to, and perhaps more of these dogs could be saved.

[purplepaws121]

Interesting points in your post Mary! I too have seen some dogs, who- although were kenneled- actually, honestly, lived good lives-such as those you talk about in the clean, pristine yards. Some even were dogs that spent time inside with their family but are kenneled just while the owners are at work. Now, although I don't agree with housing dogs outside in any form, should they instead be confiscated and euthed?

I think this shows us to not be so judgmental at a seemingly "outdoor" dog. Now, obviously if the dog is chained with a plastic barrel for a house...not good. But just because we're driving along and see a kenneled dog, or maybe even a dog on a long runner, should we judge immediately that this dog is living an awful life? That dog might only be outdoors when nobody is home, and otherwise is a family member.

It's unreal to me the amount of people (maybe because i'm in the south?) that know nothing other than "dogs belong outside". I am amazed at how many people I talk to that say "dogs are supposed to live outdoors, they're fine". Or when I ask how can you leave your dog outside in the cold..."that's what their fur is for". Unbelievable!!

Never will all dog owners be convinced that dogs should live inside. There are people who's minds we will never change. :bangdesk: BUT - maybe people can get educated *enough* to at least provide their dog with a comfortable, well insulated house, water and food bowls that aren't soiled and can't be tipped over, and some love and attention. I can never believe the people who get a dog just to throw it out on a chain. WHAT FOR??? What purpose is that dog serving? For your 5 minutes of enjoyment every few days when you decide to walk out there and pat it on the head?

I can only hope that orgs like Dogs Deserve Better will continue their great work in educating people about chaining their dogs.

I think this is some of what you were leaning towards?

[lpyrbby]

I think what gets me are things where animal control will step in for things like this and then do nothing for similar situations on a smaller scale. I know AC is different in different locations so just hear that I'm venting here lol!

I got a call today from a woman exasperated for another solution because she's been watching her neighbors dogs starve. Watched one die from starvation last year. Has not been able to have animal control respond at all. The police officers tell her the dogs have food, water, and shelter. That's "good enough." One of the dogs is chained to a chain link fence and keeps jumping over it. Fortunately, he hasn't hung himself - yet.

Or there's dog like this one:





I do believe animal control FINALLY made it out to see this dog. He wasn't bad enough for them to confiscate so they gave the "owners" one week to comply. Naturally, the dog disappeared. I haven't heard any updates to find out if the owners were still charged with anything.

It's situations like these make me anti-tethering. Sure, some people out there know what they hell they are doing when they tether and the amount of work that needs to go into the dogs to keep them happy, but..the fact of the matter is that the majority of people don't. And dogs end up like this or worse.

I dunno where I was really going with that...

[DiamondTiger]

I agree with the thought that for some animals there is a fate that is worse than death. I also struggle with the whole anti-tethering thing because it's not as "cut and dry" as a dog being chained outdoors. I think one needs to look at the conditions the animal is kept in as a whole. If you drove past my house on a day when the weather is nice, you'd likely see Karma laying out in the sun doing what she loves most... catching rays and having a peaceful nap. We don't have a fence and she is tethered while outdoors. She isn't out when I or my husband aren't home to supervise her. (Which upsets my mother in law because she wants to help with Karma, but I won't put that responsibility on her because I KNOW she isn't strong enough to handle my girl.) We live with my husbands parents right now and Karma isn't allowed in the house (where she's used to being and where I prefer her to be), so when she's not out on her tether, she is crated in the barn. It isn't the best set up for any dog, but it's far better than being penned or tied up outside 24/7. We spend every spare minute we have with her, training, playing, walking and cuddling. Ask Alicia... Karma is well cared for and spoiled like you wouldn't believe.

One of my biggest fears is that the wrong person is going to drive by one day and see Karma outside on the tether then call the police to report animal cruelty and neglect. From what I've noticed about a lot of people, they sit on one extreme or the other. There are folks who don't care, they think "it's a dog... dogs are outdoor creatures who can drink from mud puddles and don't need to be fed every day or can sustain on trash or a few table scraps" and that's that; then there are the other extremist who see a dog on a chain, tie out, tether, etc... and they don't consider that there's a comfy shelter, food and fresh water there for the dog, they don't look around to see that the ground is free of feces or that there's no trail worn from the dogs pacing, etc... they simply see a dog tied up and scream "ANIMAL ABUSER!"

I would probably get in trouble because you wouldn't see food out for Karma. Look closer tho, and you will find her food tucked away in her dog house in effort to keep it clean and dry, as well as to encourage her to use the house when she gets too warm/cool or if the occasional surprise shower pops up before I am able to get her back to the barn and in her nice warm, dry crate. I've been called crazy because I won't hesitate to drench my self in a storm so I can make sure that she's out of the elements when there comes a sudden downpour.

Dec 5, 2008 8:34:26 GMT -5 RealPitBull said:

I'm of the mindset that there are fates worse than death, and despite what SOME advocates believe, I would rather have abused/neglected/fought dogs taken in by authorities and euth'd than forced to languish for months or years and possibly be subjected to the brutality of dog fighting. Even when their owner has been acquitted after the fact, are the dogs, essentially, in some cases, 'better off dead'? Believe me, I think what happened to FB, for instance, was insanity and a violation of rights, BUT.........I admit that a part of me does wonder if those dogs, having only two possible fates - humane euthanasia or to be returned to FB - received the more humane fate.

Does any one else struggle with these difficult thoughts? The 'right' thing vs what may ultimately be best for the dogs?

As an aside, I would love to eventually see some sort of network of rescues that always keep room for a dog or two when large numbers of Pit Bulls are seized so that shelters/AC have people they can feel comfortable going to, and perhaps more of these dogs could be saved.

I think the right thing is for people to do what's best for the dogs. If that means euthanizing them so they don't have to go back to living in horrid conditions, if there's no where else for them to go... if their only other option is to be kept in a tiny shelter kennel... then yes, I think euthanizing would be the best option and most humane thing one could choose. I believe in quality of life over quantity for the simple reason that being kept alive in a 10x10 pen for 8-10-12 years would drive any animal stark-raving mad (FAR less time really for MOST animals). I feel that if an animal is forced to live in those conditions, even if it is being fed daily, has fresh water and is medically cared for... those folks who have even the best intentions in wanting to care for those animals are in essence only aiding in their mental destruction.

It's impossible for a lot of shelter facilities to work with each and every dog they house every single day. A lot of times those dogs go un-exercised and the only time they receive any type of human interaction is when they're having their kennels cleaned, they're being fed or they're being carted off for weight checks and meds or another form of veterinary care. That's no way for any animal to live.

I tell ya... I have a very unpopular opinion with a lot of folks! I can't help but get irritated at the whole "no kill" mentality, because from what I've seen... more often than not people don't seem to think it through to see the bigger picture. I suppose if one operates a sanctuary where these animals can be kept well socialized and as mentally healthy as they are physically healthy that'd be alright. But for your typical shelter environment where the primary goal is to find these animals NEW homes... I don't think this is the right setting for one to have a "no kill/save them all" mindset, because from what I've seen... this line of thinking leads to the needless destruction of a lot of animals in more ways than one.

As an aside, I would love to eventually see some sort of network of rescues that always keep room for a dog or two when large numbers of Pit Bulls are seized so that shelters/AC have people they can feel comfortable going to, and perhaps more of these dogs could be saved.

HERE! HERE!