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Post by lpyrbby on Dec 19, 2008 19:13:54 GMT -5
A while back, I had a conversation with a "trainer" about springpoles. Now, there were quite a few things about this trainer that I didn't really care for. We were only talking though and there was no need for her to look at any of our dogs or anything.
So, at some point during the conversation, I'd mentioned a springpole. She proceeded to give me her opinion that she would never use one because it builds up too much "drive" in them and that it can actually cause an excessive amount of frustration and eventually become dangerous.
She said that she would only play games where she was in control but would not let them work a springpole because it was a game they could play "by themselves" and there's no learning going on, etc.
When she was explaining, it made sense to an extent, but I'd still love to be able to have a springpole and let my dogs get that energy out. I also think that you can use the springpole in a manner to teach the dog restraint, etc. My eyes and ears had already glazed over and closed off while talking to her after she announced she trained with shock collars....
Opinions?
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 19, 2008 20:15:31 GMT -5
I don't have a spring pole but have long been considering it. Cajun prolly wouldn't touch it, my Jazz would wear herself out on it, I would imagine.
Dogs need stimulation, much more than they get in homes, even with regular exercise. A spring pole, IMO, is great stimulation and physical and mental exercise.
Dogs are canines and have an innate urge to stalk, chase, grab and dissect. Eliminating this behavior increases undesired behaviors.
I think the spring pole has a negative stigma which is why so many of us decide not to have one in our yards. (By yard I mean regular fenced lawn).
I also think that many of us pit bull owners try to distance ourselves from stereo-types and the spring pole is right up there.
My hubby is really, really handy and inventive and I probably will give the project of making a spring pole just to see if Jazz would love it.
As for this trainer's comments that it would make a dog frustrated...baloney! LACK of entertainment, exercise and stimulation will create frustration. I wouldn't consider a dog engaged on a spring pole any different than a dog obsessed with retrieving, agility or frisbee, etc. It's all an outlet and productive and safe.
On a side note...SHOCK COLLARS!?!?!? Talk about creating frustration!!!!
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Post by lpyrbby on Dec 19, 2008 20:26:30 GMT -5
Yeah, this "trainer" was alluding to the springpole becoming more of an obsessive compulsion and that it was "too self benefiting" and removed the handler from being part of the action. That it accomplished nothing more than building up frustration with something they can't get down from wherever it's hung type thing.
If I had a yard, I WOULD have a springpole. I don't care what my neighbors or anyone else would think. My dogs would love it and I know this.
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Post by Courtney on Dec 20, 2008 14:52:23 GMT -5
My dogs love spring poles. I think they're a great way to drain energy and provide stimulation.
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Post by DiamondTiger on Dec 20, 2008 18:52:56 GMT -5
You know this already, but I thought I'd go ahead and share for the rest of the folks here who don't know me or Karma.  We had a "makeshift" spring pole at our old house. I only "worked" Karma on it when either myself or Brad was outside to supervise her. She LOVED it! And pffft to the "trainer" who said they encourage drive in dogs. The spring pole was a HUGE tool in teaching Karma both "OUT" and "Leave it!" and reinforcing other obedience. Bottom line, IMO, is that it's all in how the pole is used. Supervise your dogs when they're on it and utilize it as a training aid, I think it's WONDERFUL. Let them go at it on their own whenever and however they want... you may have problems. |
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 21, 2008 1:37:59 GMT -5
You know this already, but I thought I'd go ahead and share for the rest of the folks here who don't know me or Karma. We had a "makeshift" spring pole at our old house. I only "worked" Karma on it when either myself or Brad was outside to supervise her. She LOVED it! And pffft to the "trainer" who said they encourage drive in dogs. The spring pole was a HUGE tool in teaching Karma both "OUT" and "Leave it!" and reinforcing other obedience. Bottom line, IMO, is that it's all in how the pole is used. Supervise your dogs when they're on it and utilize it as a training aid, I think it's WONDERFUL. Let them go at it on their own whenever and however they want... you may have problems. PERFECTLY SAID!!! I completely agree. I am told all the time that *some* trainers tell puppy and dog owners to NOT play tug with their dog/puppy b/c it makes them dominant and aggressive!! Yikes! Tug, springpoles and any supervised activity is a learning opp. It's so important for the dog to learn when enough is enough. |
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Post by DiamondTiger on Dec 21, 2008 4:59:39 GMT -5
I am told all the time that *some* trainers tell puppy and dog owners to NOT play tug with their dog/puppy b/c it makes them dominant and aggressive!! I've heard that a lot too. My response when people ask me "well won't that make the dog mean?" is this: Anything you do can either make or break the "deal" in how your dog turns out. Teach your dog simple commands like, sit, stay, "give or out" and leave it then teach your dog a cue release. I use the sound of "Bzzzzz!" If you let the dog "win" then sure... there's a good chance that you'll encourage some form of "meanness" in your dog. But if games are played the right way they can be a GREAT means to a pretty nifty pooch. Obedience training + NILIF (consistently) = Wonderful companion dogs. Karma picks up on things quickly. She sings on cue, she gives high 5, she'll shake "hello", she army crawls, she's learning what "take it" means and we'll work on "Bang!" (play dead) maybe in the future too. She is AWESOME with the release I've taught her and she'll do the "happy feet dance" with her front feet but nine times out of ten she will NOT break her stay until she hears the cue "Bzzz!" She LOVES to play games, flirt pole/spring pole/laser light, she doesn't care... a fun game of tug or catch the light is what motivates her and I can get her to do just about anything if she thinks these games will happen. |
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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 22, 2008 15:51:42 GMT -5
I'd bet a million dollars that that trainer never actually used a spring pole, or has only very basic experience with one and was spooked by a dog in full spring pole mode. And seriously shock collars? And she's worried about springpoles being detrimental? I'm just gonna repeat what's been said in this great thread - I agree with everyone's responses. The springpole, tug, any game where the dog is allowed to get revved up and then is asked to be calm/"leave it" is very good in helping to teach self control. Excellent training tools. I wouldn't (oops! Edit!) just throw my dogs out in the yard and let them hang on the 'pole - I'd be there to supervise.
I have also been asked numerous times if tug is a detrimental game to play, and my response is, "In a typical healthy canine/human relationship, it is perfectly acceptable and beneficial to play tug with rules". The only time behaviorally I'd possibly suggest avoiding a game like tug is if the dog has a problem with arousal and getting grabby easily and/or there is an owner-directed aggression issue.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 22, 2008 18:46:30 GMT -5
I am in such good company...so glad to be part of this forum!  |
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Post by RuffMuttK9z on Dec 22, 2008 18:50:14 GMT -5
As soon as it is finished uploading I will post my contribution to the neverending question: "But doesn't it make them mean?"
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Post by RuffMuttK9z on Dec 22, 2008 22:03:15 GMT -5
See, Springpoles make my dogs so mean they can even play together...
(watch in high quality if it offers it)
**Please don't tell me how it is a bad idea to have a pit bull out there with my other dogs. I'm not in denial, I don't think that a fight can't happen to me. I know. Seriously. I don't need a lecture. You can read the NOTE in the video description if you need further explanation. kthxbai.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 23, 2008 0:04:19 GMT -5
Nope...you won't here it's a bad idea from me! Having close friends with BCs and Aussies I'd sooner say they'd be a bad influence on my pit bulls. LOL (Hope you got that).
I loved this video and the set up.
My 8 yr old daughter was watching and when she asked what they were doing, I told her "springpole" and explained that some folks think that makes dogs mean.
My EIGHT year old said, "Looks like they're playing to me."
WOW. Yep!
Keep 'em coming, these are great!
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Post by DiamondTiger on Dec 23, 2008 4:05:29 GMT -5
My EIGHT year old said, "Looks like they're playing to me." Gotta love kids huh! LOL! They're a lot smarter than some people give them credit for. ;D |
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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 23, 2008 6:57:51 GMT -5
HA! Those BCs know what's up! Cool vid, Debbie! Next time someone tells me springpoles are for teaching Pit Bulls fighting, I'm going show them this vid. P.s. Castles in the Sky is one of my all time fave songs, ever. Brings back memories.........  |
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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 23, 2008 6:59:41 GMT -5
P.s. Would you mind me posting this in a blog about springpoles?
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Post by RuffMuttK9z on Dec 23, 2008 7:36:03 GMT -5
You can post it, that's fine.
Bama, I was going to say something about my BCs being worse than any pit bull I've ever met but typically the pit bull people get all defensive and want their pit bulls to be worse. I don't get it but that's why I just stopped using that argument. My BCs are 100x more to deal with as far as temperament, DA, attitude, etc, etc, etc, than the two pit bulls I have here.
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Dec 23, 2008 10:21:00 GMT -5
You can post it, that's fine. Bama, I was going to say something about my BCs being worse than any pit bull I've ever met but typically the pit bull people get all defensive and want their pit bulls to be worse. I don't get it but that's why I just stopped using that argument. My BCs are 100x more to deal with as far as temperament, DA, attitude, etc, etc, etc, than the two pit bulls I have here. I think you're in the right place to make statements like that again and not worry about any of us being defensive! LOL The vast majority of pitties I am around are the mushiest babies with other dogs. And one of my closest friends has BCs and Aussies and they are constantly squabbling and snarking at each other and everything else that moves. She's always calling me (the pit bull owner) for advice. Not to say that they aren't lovely, just seem to be mental challenges all the time. Then again, I simply couldn't imagine managing and owning 11 dogs at once! Even with easy, easy dogs that's ALOT of work! |
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Post by RuffMuttK9z on Dec 23, 2008 11:49:50 GMT -5
Mary, here are a couple of products you may want to touch on in your discussion of springpoles. It seems companies are actually marketing almost identical products under cutesy names now in an effort to make them seem like a totally different toy than the ones our vicious pit bulls play with. www.puppypull.comwww.chaseitpettoys.comCan we say springpole and flirtpole?! GRR!!! I guess I need to start calling my springpole a "Puppy Pull" and my flirtpole a "Chase-it" so people will know that my toys are soooooooo different than the ones they use on vicious attack pit bulls.  |
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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 23, 2008 15:05:51 GMT -5
Thanks Debbie, yes, I'll include those. I've also seen treadmills (you know, those things that people use to condition their fighting dogs? ) advertised with sporty, 'every dog' packaging. Somehow when a Pit Bull uses these things, they take on a dark and mysterious aura. |
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Post by RuffMuttK9z on Dec 23, 2008 15:33:58 GMT -5
HAAA!!! I have a carpet mill and every dog EXCEPT my pit bull will use it!!
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I look forward to learning much here