lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Post by lola1 on Dec 30, 2008 17:06:08 GMT -5
"Just some things I'm curious about, and might be able to offer helpful suggestions on:
*How much exercise does the dog get daily
*What sort of food the dog is on
*Medical history
*Training history
*Behavioral/bite history
*Dog's 'place' in the home - is he crated, allowed free reign,
etc."
They get a 30-45 min walk daily. It's been hard though recently because it's been so cold (single digits) they limp after just a few minutes because their paws are cold.
I just put them on Canidae for life stages dry. They also get a half can of Canidae wet mixed in with it.
He recently had screening bloodwork done and everything came back great.
As far as bite history, nobody can tell me anything except for the foster and they said he was fine.
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angels8
I Love RPBF!
Pitbull Snuggler
Posts: 252
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Post by angels8 on Dec 30, 2008 18:08:33 GMT -5
Ok this last post gave great information, Sometimes information overload is a good thing, Without seeing the dog and knowing the dog and meeting the dog I would say he MAY be workable. **FROM READING YOUR INFORMATION** it seems his head is his "spot" especially his ears. I would Use NILF and positive rewards and slow socialization, when he growls clap once and say "ehhhnt" *noise* to distract him then tell him "No Sir" ( i use Sir and Ma'am - I dunno why) and to get down from where he is and into his crate. Practice drills with him tell him "crate or bed Now" if he goes then reward. Be polite but firm, you do not need to reinforce fear but build controlled confidence. I have the girls crates right square in the living room and next to each other. so they are used to noises. Pockets full of treats and rewards will help him work through the "strange place fear"
Do not let him near the door, give him no reason to be aggressive or territorial (which is odd for a non guardian breed) when the delivery guy comes I say"Ladies, Beds.. Now" and they go and sit in their crates, i walk by snap the latches as I go to the door, the arrangement of the apartment lets them view what is going on and they are getting better and better, Kaeda (2 yrs) will now sit behind me as I open the door because she has learned that the nice guy in the black outfit brings pepperoni.
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Post by maryellen on Dec 30, 2008 19:33:28 GMT -5
i also think that he could be genetically fearful or lack of socialization at an early age is contributing to this. there is an excellent book that you should get, its called Help For Your Fearful Dog by Nicole Wilde, its on amazon.com i have it and it is a great training tool.. next time at the vet do NOT drag him in.. start taking to the vets , treat, leave.. keep doing this and keep it positive so that when he goes to the vet he associates it with positive things. the book i suggested will help you learn how to work with him in new places.. its a step by step book, with AWESOME training information, and will be a great help for you..
also, it is strange he shuts his eyes and growls. is it possible he is a very vocal dog ? like not a growl growl, but a talking growl? i have a dog here who is very vocal, she makes all sorts of noises, including growling, but its more a talking growl ( like rotties like to grumble/growl but its not a real growl )
another good book is Control Unleashed by leslie mcdevitt, and click to Calm by emma parsons.. get all these 3 books
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Post by emilys on Dec 30, 2008 19:58:39 GMT -5
the rescue if they really wanted to could sue the owners, i know most rescues wouldnt, but if a rescue adopts out an already sketchy dog there is more of a chance they would sue.. ... well, they COULD, I suppose, but for what? Breach of contract? Can you see a judge or jury listening to "The dog bit my kid, so I had to euth it." and the rescue arguing against that? I seriously doubt these contracts are worth much beyond the individual integrity of the adopter, just as s/n clauses are only worth the same... |
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Post by lola1 on Dec 30, 2008 20:18:53 GMT -5
ME I've considered that it may be a vocal thing. I talked myself out of it, thinking I was making excuses. He is quite vocal and the growl is different than when he hears the door opening or something. I am going to get the book you mentioned, start the obedience classes, and get the NILIF info and see how it goes. Like I said, I let the BF know today that we need to be serious and work hard at this in order to keep our dog and others safe. Thank you all so much. I'm soooo glad I found this forum and decided to join.  |
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Post by maryellen on Dec 30, 2008 21:04:21 GMT -5
lola get all 3 books i mentioned, they will all help you learn how to work with him. with the obedience classes make sure they are all positive, no jerking of collars or anything, as if he is fearful that will set him back even farther.. lack of socialization can and will damage pups , and if their genetic makeup is weak to begin with it just makes it worse., and do STRICT nilif, no excuses, no exceptions, he must earn everything. make him sit for food. if he doesnt sit at teh first sit command put the food away till next feeding... he must EARN everything even petting, walks, etc...
yes emily, the contracts arent worth much, but there is always that possibility of a rescue dragging it out in court even for principal... and no judge would rule against the adopter if the dog did bite or showed HA.
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Post by bubsy on Dec 30, 2008 23:53:49 GMT -5
You've got some great advice here, I hope you can work thru this...esp w/the BF! Get him in line LOL! I would see Brenda Aloff, she wrote a great book on Canine Aggression. www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB755 |
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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 31, 2008 8:50:14 GMT -5
when he growls clap once and say "ehhhnt" *noise* to distract him then tell him "No Sir" ( i use Sir and Ma'am - I dunno why) and to get down from where he is and into his crate. Please don't use ANY punishment (a reprimand here would be punishment that suppresses a *warning* signal, which is what you want). You really need someone qualified to come to your home and work with you through this. Also, NO 'time outs' for this dog if he is growling/aggressive. Time outs work when the dog WANTS attention/social interaction. The way you've describe Reed, he wants people to GO AWAY - using his crate as a typical response to growling behavior would only reward him for growling. Try to set him up to not express any aggression, and if you have company or anyone coming over, put him in the crate BEFORE he has an opportunity to growl/bark. Books I recommend: The Canine Aggression Workbook by James O Heare and How to Right a Dog Gone Wrong by Pam Dennison Also all three books Maryellen suggested - Control Unleashed is AWESOME. You could easily make this better, or you could easily make this a lot worse, so until you've read a few books and perhaps started working with someone, just concentrate on prevention and management. |
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Post by RealPitBull on Dec 31, 2008 8:52:15 GMT -5
P.s. if you haven't already done so, please get a full thyroid workup done: www.hemopet.com Your vet takes the blood sample, and Hemopet analyzes it. Simply bloodwork won't necessarily tell you anything. |
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Post by pitpupmom on Dec 31, 2008 16:27:37 GMT -5
Seems to me that his ears are sensitive since you said he lunged at the vet tech when the vet was looking at his ears and the baby was trying to kiss his ears. Also I agree with everyone on the NILIF training. Seems he's a bit dominant. Even if he's listening I think he needs to be put in his place. Odie lets my daughter do whatever she wants to him. If he puts his mouth on her she just says ouch and he walks away. Even if it's an accident. Otherwise Odie never has growled at anyone or anything. And if he did it would be fixed then and there. Definately start NILIF
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Post by DiamondTiger on Jan 1, 2009 4:34:10 GMT -5
when he growls clap once and say "ehhhnt" *noise* to distract him then tell him "No Sir" ( i use Sir and Ma'am - I dunno why) and to get down from where he is and into his crate. Please don't use ANY punishment (a reprimand here would be punishment that suppresses a *warning* signal, which is what you want). You really need someone qualified to come to your home and work with you through this. Also, NO 'time outs' for this dog if he is growling/aggressive. Time outs work when the dog WANTS attention/social interaction. The way you've describe Reed, he wants people to GO AWAY - using his crate as a typical response to growling behavior would only reward him for growling. Try to set him up to not express any aggression, and if you have company or anyone coming over, put him in the crate BEFORE he has an opportunity to growl/bark. Books I recommend: The Canine Aggression Workbook by James O Heare and How to Right a Dog Gone Wrong by Pam Dennison Also all three books Maryellen suggested - Control Unleashed is AWESOME. You could easily make this better, or you could easily make this a lot worse, so until you've read a few books and perhaps started working with someone, just concentrate on prevention and management. I agree with Mary here. It's never a good idea to use any form of punishment with a case of aggression. You don't want to suppress any warning that he's giving, nor do you want to increase his aggression (which COULD happen as he may perceive the punishment, or person issuing the correction, as a threat and act accordingly to avoid the punishment the next time and before it happens again). It would be great if you could find a behaviorist who could come into your home and observe him and work with you on a behavior modification program. In the mean time, I would follow the advice of taking all of his freedoms away and implement a strict NILIF program into his daily routine. It's important to understand that EVERYONE who comes into contact with him uses this method with him or he will get mixed signals and it will be confusing for him. |
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eppfaff
Full Fledged Poster
Shelby
Posts: 113
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Post by eppfaff on Jan 1, 2009 11:45:19 GMT -5
Reed sounds like a nice dog. Little kids are scary,especially toddlers. Sounds like fear aggression. The couch thing is easily taken care of as it sounds as if he is either just being a brat or simply saying I don't want to move from my space or both. Step one to solving this is not to let him on the couch (see other postings).
Good luck with Reed and the bf too.
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Post by RuffMuttK9z on Jan 1, 2009 21:04:10 GMT -5
P.s. if you haven't already done so, please get a full thyroid workup done: www.hemopet.com Your vet takes the blood sample, and Hemopet analyzes it. Simply bloodwork won't necessarily tell you anything. YESS!! I was reading this thread thinking "thyroid, thyroid, thyroid" so I am glad someone got to it before I did! PLEASE have this dog's thyroid tested before you make any rash decisions. That being said, the reputation of pit bulls is too fragile to risk, IMO. If this were my dog and his bloodwork came back clear, I would euthanize him. That's just me because I have absolutely no desire to manage a dog like this for the rest of his life. I run a rescue and have euthanized one dog due to aggression. I am not entirely sure what this particular dog's issue was but there were certainly some screws loose up in his head. He was unpredictable and had a glint of "undead" in his eyes almost. I know that sounds sort of stupid, but really, he was totally disconnected from the world. It was the hardest choice I ever had to make but there is absolutely no way in hell I would have adopted that dog out and I wasn't prepared to care for a dog that bit me every single day either. Also, I have two separate clauses in my adoption contract regarding returns. 1) If for any reason adopter is unable to keep the dog, adopter will notify RMBCR immediately. At that time, RMBCR either reclaim the dog or work with adopter to find an appropriate home for this dog without refund of adoption donation. Appropriate homes to be determined by RMBCR only. The dog may not be sold, given away, relinquished to another rescue/shelter or otherwise disposed of without prior written authorization of RMBCR. 2) The above dog may not be euthanized in a non-emergency situation without notifying RMBCR by registered letter and giving 14 days to respond. I sit down with each adopter and go through every stipulation of my contract and touch on this second statement directly. I inform each adopter that this statement is to protect the DOG in situations such as the ones being discussed here. I directly tell adopters that if this dog should ever bite someone THAT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN EMERGENCY. |
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Post by lola1 on Jan 4, 2009 6:25:01 GMT -5
What about stages? Like making him sit at the door in/out all the time at first. then other things added as we go? Is that so bad? The BF is on board, and obedience classes start in just over a week. He's been really good and has not growled or acted indifferently since the last incident, granted, that was just last week.
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Post by maryellen on Jan 4, 2009 8:19:34 GMT -5
NILIF is making the dog earn what he wants, sit to go out, sit to eat,stuff like that.. implement it ALL now..not in stages.... www.k9deb.com Nothing In Life is Free is the full name, use it all, and it will help give structure to the dog.. but make sure everyone follows it perfectly. |
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Post by RealPitBull on Jan 14, 2009 10:42:22 GMT -5
What's goin on with Reed??
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Post by lola1 on Jan 14, 2009 11:25:04 GMT -5
Well, we started obedience classes on Monday. He was extremely scared at first, he whined the first half hour and repeatedly tried climbing onto my lap. Once he calmed down, he did really good. He responded well to the exercises.
NILIF at home is going well, the BF is really trying. I'm hoping all of this will really help him. The obedience class we are attending is at the Humane Society and they also offer a class for CGC preparation, with the test included after completion. I really like the instructor and hope that we will be able to continue with her. I'm much more confident that we can handle this. I know it will take a lot of work, but I think he's worth it.
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Post by RealPitBull on Jan 14, 2009 11:29:30 GMT -5
Awesome!!!! Thanks for the updates!
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Post by bamapitbullmom on Jan 14, 2009 12:34:28 GMT -5
Be sure to discuss the issues you've had with Reed with your trainer so that she/he is better able to help you with those issues in mind.
It's great that you are in a class, a good foundation of obedience and attention training will help in all aspects of your life and Reed's. Good for you!
Please keep us posted on his progress.
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Post by lola1 on Jan 14, 2009 14:14:51 GMT -5
Oh yeah, she already knows whats been going on with him. In fact I emailed her before the class started and kind of gave her some background, and she said she may also need to come to the house to see how he acts at home as well. We will see if it comes to that. I'm really hoping he will be much more rlaxed at the next class.
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I look forward to learning much here