lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Reed
Feb 22, 2009 18:15:16 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Feb 22, 2009 18:15:16 GMT -5
Well, despite my efforts to get Reed well managed and under control, Reed bit my friend today. I'm devastated. My friend came over and immediately gave both dogs treats. Reed sat for her, and took the treats very nicely. Then when she bent a little to pet them, he jumped and got her in the face. Luckily, he did not get her too bad. She had one spot where she was bleeding a bit. He did not growl or anything, I realize this is not "all of a sudden" as we've had problems with him already. I spoke to the rescue that I got him from and she wants me to euthanize him tomorrow. Which, unfortunately, I will be doing first thing in the morning. I feel terrible, my friend did too. She told me not to euthanize him, that it was her fault. I do not in any way, blame her and I told her that. I blame myself, whether it's warranted or not, I believe I could have done more. Anyway, thanks for all the advice you've all given me in regards to Reed. I still have Lola and plan on remaining on this forum.
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Reed
Feb 22, 2009 22:07:17 GMT -5
Post by maryellen on Feb 22, 2009 22:07:17 GMT -5
hugs to you lola, i am so sorry you have to go thru this. the rescue should have taken him back and done it themselves. Just remember, it isnt Reed's fault, you cant fix genetics, so its the byb who bred him who is to blame... I too have had to euthanize dogs that have bitten me or gone after people , and it is hard.
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 8:38:36 GMT -5
Post by pitpupmom on Feb 23, 2009 8:38:36 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about Reed. I would hate to be in your shoes, but I believe you are doing what's right. Lola will miss her friend, but maybe later you will be able to get her another one when you both have healed. Sending healing energy for the both of you. It's hard when you know what's best but it's still wrong in your heart.
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 12:33:59 GMT -5
Post by valliesong on Feb 23, 2009 12:33:59 GMT -5
I'm sending my thoughts to you. I almost had to make this decision with my dog Aiden, and hopefully won't have to revisit it in the future.
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 12:56:09 GMT -5
Post by RealPitBull on Feb 23, 2009 12:56:09 GMT -5
I'm really sorry to hear this.....we are here to support you if you need a shoulder to lean on. I know you did not arrive easily at this decision.
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 13:17:03 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Feb 23, 2009 13:17:03 GMT -5
At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I totally forgot about getting his thyroid checked. My vet office made me a "euthanasia consult" appointment for later this afternoon. (They couldn't see him this morning) I plan on speaking with her about the test, but is it too late? I feel sooooo bad that I didn't get it done, and I possibly could have avoided this whole situation. I don't blame anyone either for wanting to wring my neck. I would wring it myself if it were possible.
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 14:03:22 GMT -5
Post by andreacassel on Feb 23, 2009 14:03:22 GMT -5
I don't think that anyone wants to ring your neck. I believe that we are all here to support you. We all have to do what is right for us, our pets, and the breed - and that is not a decision that anyone can make for us. I am sorry that you are having to go through all of this - I know you must be devastated. Please keep up updated - I am sure you are in the thoughts of all of us right now.
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 14:22:08 GMT -5
Post by tank on Feb 23, 2009 14:22:08 GMT -5
I have no idea if I could deal with going through something like this. You are a very strong person. I wish you best of luck in your healing. I'm sorry it didn't work out for Reed.
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 15:19:51 GMT -5
Post by RealPitBull on Feb 23, 2009 15:19:51 GMT -5
At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I totally forgot about getting his thyroid checked. My vet office made me a "euthanasia consult" appointment for later this afternoon. (They couldn't see him this morning) I plan on speaking with her about the test, but is it too late? I feel sooooo bad that I didn't get it done, and I possibly could have avoided this whole situation. I don't blame anyone either for wanting to wring my neck. I would wring it myself if it were possible. Oh, if he has not had a full thyroid panel done, absolutely do that before you make any permament decisions. I would also send the bloodwork to HemoPet, and not rely just on your vet unless he/she is very versed in this sort of thing/is a vet behaviorist. I know you have been working with a group trainer, but have you worked one on one with a qualified behavior specialist? It really does make a difference. A great obedience trainer might not have any real clue about aggression. Pardon me if you've covered all this already in past threads. When it comes to aggression and chosing euthanasia, I always suggest full vet checkup, trying medication and a thorough behavior modification program before euthanasia. Based on the behavior you described, I would personally not slate Reed for euthanasia - I'd work hard to find someone you could feel comfortable guiding you through a beh. mod. program before I even thought about euth'ing him, as long as you could work out a plan to keep him and humans safe in the interim (this is the most important thing - if you cannot keep people safe, the rest is pretty much moot).
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 15:43:55 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Feb 23, 2009 15:43:55 GMT -5
Ok, jeez I feel like a jerk, going back and forth on this. I dowloaded and printed all the info for hemopet. including the test requisition forms and address for where to send the sample. Also, the person who runs the obedience class is not just a trainer. Here's a link to see her credentials: www.hskc.org/animal-care-dogob.htmShe does do in-home evals, and I e-mailed her today and she thinks that he definitely needs more than class time. I called the rescue immediately after the incident and her first response was to put him down. I'm trying to do the right thing, and I have alot of people telling me different things. Of course, my mom, who loves Reed, told me if I keep him, and he hurts my kids or me, that she will hurt me as well. LOL not funny, but she's concerned for safety. I tried telling her I'm concerned for the kids AND Reed. Then there's my daughter who said she doesn't care who he bites, we are keeping him. I had to have a conversation with her about that too. Anyway, I'm glad I have somewhere to go for good advice. I still think Reed is worth it. I guess I need to have more confidence is both him and myself. Thanks again.
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 15:52:40 GMT -5
Post by andreacassel on Feb 23, 2009 15:52:40 GMT -5
Please keep us updated on his progress.
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 15:54:50 GMT -5
Post by RealPitBull on Feb 23, 2009 15:54:50 GMT -5
Ok, great, your trainer is qualified, fer shure. I'm glad you spoke with her How old are your kids?
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Reed
Feb 23, 2009 16:01:17 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Feb 23, 2009 16:01:17 GMT -5
8 and 12. They both are very good with boths dogs. I do have the kids give treats and put their food bowls down on occasion also. Other than that myself and my BF have most of the interaction with them. Another concern was that the kids always have friends over. There's never been a problem involving Reed and any of those visitors though. I guess for the time being I will have to keep him away in another room or something.
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Reed
Feb 24, 2009 9:51:08 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Feb 24, 2009 9:51:08 GMT -5
So Reed had his blood drawn for the thyroid panel. The vet didn't seem too convinced that it maight be his thyroid, but she thought it was definitely worth a shot. I'm just so happy to have been able to go with another option. I absolutely want to keep him. I just need to figure out the best and safest way to do so.
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Reed
Feb 25, 2009 13:44:16 GMT -5
Post by pmccarthy on Feb 25, 2009 13:44:16 GMT -5
I am so sorry to hear about your turmoil. Please take comfort in your decision. I had a fox hound that I was determined to turn his behavior around, he was diagonsed as being "mentally unstable" I did not put patches down on the recommendation of 3 vets. You would have thought that I would have gotten the message after all that we had been through. But I didn't. Patches did not like children. So I crated him when children were around, no other alternative. However, because I opted to keep him, we were riding in a car after being in the country and he got into a nervous fit in the car, hit the button on the window, jumped out the window and got hit by an oncoming car. Patches died a terrible death, because I could not accept the facts of the situation that I was in. I live with that every day, I caused unnecessary suffering for Patches, myself, and the poor driver of the car that hit Patches. Had I been responsible the light at rainbow bridge would have been brighter for Patches. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I am truly sorry for what you are going through now.
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Reed
Feb 26, 2009 18:22:12 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Feb 26, 2009 18:22:12 GMT -5
Reeds test results were normal for his thyroid panel. My next step is having the trainer do a home eval and see if we can't figure out a good behavior mod program for him. He's been doing really well at home. Unfortunately, I'm just going to have to manage him very well and always be on top of any situation. I just can't bring myself to euthanize him. Any further suggestions would be great.
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Reed
Feb 26, 2009 19:22:13 GMT -5
Post by maryellen on Feb 26, 2009 19:22:13 GMT -5
if you cant euthanize him, managing him will be VERY HARD. its going to take the entire family to do the rules, always remember one slip up and it can be bad.. why would you honestly want to manage an HA dog when there are so many sound stable ones dying in shelters? you are going to have to make sure doors/gates/crates are doubly shut/locked, etc, know where he is at all times, leash him always inside/outside/ tell people to stay away as he is unstable, all it takes is one mistake, one slip up for him to be a media headline and one step away from BSL in your area... trust me i have been managing my HA gsd for 6 years now. its no picnic like i posted before.. all it takes is one slip up on my part and a human can get hurt bad, i can be sued, and fail my dog.. while i dont envy anyone who does manage a HA dog, its not cut and dry. it takes alot of responsiblity.. on everyones part. for example, at the vet the other night a man wanted to pet my gsd.. i told him flat out to stay away as she doesnt like people.. he looked , and asked again. to which i said to stay away or i would kick his ass, as my dog isnt good with people and i dont want him getting bit.. he finally believed me.. and asked why. to which i said bad genetics from being a puppy mill dog... he then thanked me for being so honest .. gsd's that dont like people ddont get the bad rap that pitbullls do, sure they get a bad rap, but with the pit bull being under fire as bad as they are, why chance it? a child tried to pet her as well a week prior, to which i reamed out the mother for A. not watching her child and B. not teaching the child to not run up to strange dogs.. again, i had to have eyes everywhere to catch this child running toward us from behind me... having a HA dog is a all eyes scanning and rescanning and making sure no one comes near you... from all angles.. its hard work, stressful work, and honestly, if it wasnt for my husband i would have euthed her 6 years ago.... i will never again manage a HA dog, its too stressful for me, the dog and everyone involved.. and its not fair to the dog, as one mishap will cause the dogs death and you to be sued...
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Reed
Feb 26, 2009 19:22:55 GMT -5
Post by maryellen on Feb 26, 2009 19:22:55 GMT -5
for management, www.k9deb.com Nothing In Life Is Free - follow it to a T, strict rules, and you might be able to manage Reed..
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lola1
I Love RPBF!
Lola and Reed
Posts: 372
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Reed
Feb 26, 2009 21:00:05 GMT -5
Post by lola1 on Feb 26, 2009 21:00:05 GMT -5
Thank you for your honesty. I've been thinking about this non stop since the incident last Sunday, and praying since he had his blood drawn that it was his thyroid and he was going to be fine. I actually just got an email from the woman who fostered him at the rescue and she doesn't think I should keep him either. She said if I needed anything to let her know. I considered giving him to her to have her get him euthanized, but I kind of think I would want to be with him when he goes. The last few months have been extremely hard for me. I just lost my dad to cancer and I think thats getting in the way of me sticking with a decision. I don't want to lose another part of my life. But...I also don't know if I could handle him. As I've said before, I don't know much about training and dog behavior. So who am I to think I can do this? I guess I'm being selfish and I need to get over it. I'm already crying just thinking about it. The way you are describing your hardships with your GSD and the fact that you DO know what you are doing, tells me what I need to know. I will update when I follow through.
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Reed
Feb 26, 2009 22:15:23 GMT -5
Post by maryellen on Feb 26, 2009 22:15:23 GMT -5
you are NOT being selfish, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and are trying to do the right thing. managing dogs with issues is not for everyone, some can do it ,some cant.. it boils down to what YOU can do.. not what others do. its a hard thing to do, both of them, whether its euthing or managing.. both are not fun, one worse then the other, one is a finality one isnt..
it honestly sucks managing my jesse . trust me,.. i am always scanning and making sure no one approaches her. of course people that know her can, like the vets and vet techs, she is fine there, as she grew up with them. i can have people over my house and she is fine, when i take her out in public that is where the problems can occur. i am very lucky as she has such severe separation anxiety that she will never run away if she got loose, which is one of the reasons why i manage her over the years, she wont run away like other dogs would, so i dont have to worry about her running away and confronting someone if they corner her.. i honestly wouldnt have managed her if i knew ahead of time what i was in for, as its very stressful.. i used to take her out in public, and after she snapped at a few old ladies walking down a sidewalk i realized i couldnt do that anymore... she has never bit anyone, but has snapped at a few folks , which was a huge wakeup call for me.
it all boils down to management. after 6 years i can do it blindfolded, as it becomes second nature... would i do it again? hell no.. way too much stress and responsibility.. way too much... it also depends onthe dog as well, if the dog is fine in the house, and shows no aggression that is easier to handle. you just never take the dog out in public again.. if the dog shows aggression when people come over, then its crated behind a locked door so no one goes into the room and gets bit...
after doing this for 6 years, i now take her out to the local park when it first opens or right before it closes, so that there are no people around. we walk and have fun, but when i see people we steer clear and make sure no one approaches us.. you just have to get used to never taking your dog out in public except to the vets, and there you have to be diligent or leave the dog in the car until the vet calls you.
honestly, you need to sit down and go thru the bad/good points, what is manageable, what isnt, can it be done or cant it, and make a sensible decision. i am so sorry you lost your dad , my condolences to you and your family on his passing.
if you decide to keep him, i can help you to a degree with managing him, but it will be a tough road ahead of you, as it wont be easy, and if you do go that route, your ENTIRE family that lives with Reed will have to follow the rules to a T, there can be NO margin of error, NONE... and, everyone in the family must be aware of the consequences should something happen and go wrong.
also, has reed every shown aggression to your family that lives with him? if he has shown aggression to you or any of the family that lives there, then NO do not manage him but euthanize him. there is a difference between managing a HA dog that is fine with family and one that isnt.. managing a dog that is HA within your family is a suicide mission and should NEVER be done..
hugs to you with whatever decision you make.
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