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Post by onlyktm on Mar 8, 2009 5:48:09 GMT -5
As I said in the Intro, my dog had a lousy teenager owner, who teached him to kill cats. (that was why he was confiscated). Now there is a huge progress since I took him, I can make him sit quietly when he is on a leash very close to the cat, and he doesn't even pull's me to the cats (not like when I took him) the problem occurs when he if Off leash. He totally forget's about me, does not listen to me, it is like i am invisible. from this problem, I have another problem, the problem is that he doesnt know when to quit.... when my german sheperd was chasing a deer, after a mile or so, he was turing back.... this idiot can continue chasing it, only to find out he has no idea where he is, and has no idea how to return to me... (so far that he cannot hear me) any advices? i tried to use positive enforcement with the cats, but there is nothing that he wants more than a cat. not good words, no meat or something tasty.... thanks for the help guys.
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Post by purplepaws121 on Mar 8, 2009 8:43:39 GMT -5
What a picture!! Sounds like you've already done an AMAZING job with him to get him to sit next to one like that. Nice! My Dixie lives peacefully (for the most part) with my indoor cat but aside from that, she will kill one. She's injured one and killed 2 within the past year (they won't stay out of the fenced back yard-we let her out to potty and she grabs a cat if they're not quick enough). It's a chase game for her, then when she gets them it's a snapped neck/back and they're gone. She never even leaves a mark on them. My worst nightmare is that Sadie (my cat) will slip outside with us one day and Dixie will be after her because she's no longer indoors. I have to be super pro-active about making sure Sadie doesn't slip out the door (she tries). For me, it's constant management. I haven't attempted any training with her to help this issue. But, if that's what your looking for, you will soon be getting some great responses with some training advice. How did you train the good behavior while leashed? Positive reinforcement? Treats/praise?
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Post by onlyktm on Mar 8, 2009 10:14:00 GMT -5
No, I teached him to sit, and stay and not to move until I'll say otherwise, lucky me - he got it perfectly and is not trying to move when seated near a cat. but again, only when leashed. It took me about 30 minutes to teach him how to sit, and it is been more than 3 months, and i cannot teach him to lay.
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snipe
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Post by snipe on Mar 8, 2009 16:13:36 GMT -5
i would say just don't unleash him unless you are 100 percent certain no cats are around. but before that see if he stills retains the same attentiveness on a longer lead. and keep extending the distance of the leash to see at what point you lose his attention. practice getting him to sit like that even when he is further extended on the longer lead.
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Post by toospooky on Mar 8, 2009 22:36:18 GMT -5
I've never had any problems with Omelet or my other two dogs with our three cats. However, I previously had a Labrador named Abbey who despised cats. All it took was for her to hear the word "kitty" for her to go into a frenzy.
When we made the decision to adopt two rescue kittens, we were concerned about her reaction to them. However, she soon accepted them as members of her family. By extension, she also learned to "tolerate" the neighborhood cats, not to chase, bark or threaten them, either.
I don't know if familiarization would work for your dog (unleashed), but that is how I handled mine. Dogs have different temperaments just like people do.
By the way, your dog is beautiful. What is his name?
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Post by onlyktm on Mar 8, 2009 23:43:08 GMT -5
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 9, 2009 13:23:37 GMT -5
My advice? KEEP HIM ON LEASH Problem solved. Off-leash training is very advanced stuff. Expecting a dog that was encouraged to harass/attack cats to behave around them off leash is a little much. It's going to take a lot of training. I'd probably not risk the off leash stuff. Off leash control needs to start with simple behaviors, in a quiet, controlled environment. Gradually build up to more advanced behaviors in the quite environment. And when you are successful there, change the environment but go back to asking for only very simple behaviors again.
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Post by andreacassel on Mar 9, 2009 13:36:34 GMT -5
I like the picture - they are sitting next to each other with their heads turned in opposite directions acting they the one next to them does not exist. Looks like a husband and wife after an argument....
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Post by onlyktm on Mar 9, 2009 14:57:25 GMT -5
Ok - more info. The dog is almost all of the time on-leash. there are only two situations when he is released, 1. when we are going to the valley each morning, it is a off-leash walk, in a place which is almost EMPTY from other animals, since we are doing in early in the morning, porcupines which he hates comes only at night, and there are no cats around. He listen's prertty good. 2.when he is playing with his friends, this accures in different places, and usually when I check them for cats before. (In this photo his one of his best friends, which is a year and a half old Amstaff) I understand the suggestion to keep him leashed all of the time, but what kind of life is it? he is such a good dog, it is a punishment to do it for both of us, and specially him. btw - couple of days ago I had a problem, even when he was leashed, a dog (male) attacked him while he was leashed. so, again things can occur also while leashed. and for that matter - when I only got him, he caught a cat while leashed, he just jumped into the bushes and came out with a cat in his jaw. my german sheperd was also hating cats, but not like that.
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Post by andreacassel on Mar 9, 2009 15:10:24 GMT -5
I really don't know. My dogs are all raised around a variety of animals (cats, rabbits, birds, etc.) so I have never had any type of species aggressive issues. I wish I could be of more help..
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snipe
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Post by snipe on Mar 9, 2009 16:54:10 GMT -5
I do believe in off leash walks as well, but I am constantly vigilant. I can't even imagine what that would be like with a dog that was trained to chase certain things. I may be wrong, but i think the longer leash test may be a good start. Also, if you are taking him on long walks it isnt cruel for him to be leashed because he is still out there with you. But I can't entirely agree with that without being hypocritical because I too like to release my dog. If you do want to start unleashing in more public spaces the very basics (sit, stay, wait, drop, and others) will need to be COMPLETELY mastered. I would say it is worth a shot, because the worst that could come out of it is you have a better behaved on-leash dog. And he does get off sometimes at least.
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eppfaff
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Post by eppfaff on Mar 9, 2009 21:37:48 GMT -5
Work recall on a long line. Work on getting a truly reliable stay. Sounds as if you are doing well with Bush. Have patience with him and your progress. Off lease runs are great, but be careful.
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Post by valliesong on Mar 10, 2009 11:34:34 GMT -5
I use a 30 ft. line to walk my dogs in the farm fields. It gives them the same freedom as being off lead, but gives me the control I would need should we be approached by a vehicle or another animal. It also helps for those times that there are rabbits hiding in the weeds, or some particularly ripe roadkill.
In my opinion, it's just not safe to have a dog completely off lead, and why should your dog be further than 30 ft. from you anyway? It allows them plenty of freedom, exercise, and mental stimulation.
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Post by onlyktm on Mar 10, 2009 14:25:22 GMT -5
I dont think we can comapre offleash and a 30ft leash. what about playing time with friends?
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 10, 2009 14:57:36 GMT -5
I dont think we can comapre offleash and a 30ft leash. what about playing time with friends? Lots of us do not allow our dogs to run off leash. It's very, very common, especially in suburban or city areas. A dog can get plenty of exercise and socializing opportunities on leash. It's a myth that dogs *HAVE* to run off leash in order to be healthy and happy. The way I see it, your dog chases/harms cats. Therefore, the only ethical thing would be to keep him on a leash, while simultaneously working to teach him to leave cats alone and be reliable off leash. Personally, however, I don't recommend dogs that have shown themselves to be likely to harm other animals to be allowed off leash, even after training. Even the best trained dog can and will make mistakes, and for dogs with strong drives, expecting them to be reliable all the time off leash is not very realistic. When the outcome of disobeying equals harm to other animals OR your own dog, there really is no alternative expect to keep the dog on a leash. Pit Bulls being off leash and chasing and harming cats, other dogs, and animals is one reason they have such a bad name. It is safer for SO many reasons to just keep your dog on a leash. Hope I don't sound harsh, I don't mean to. I just feel very strongly about this subject and want to be adament about it.
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Post by tank on Mar 10, 2009 15:49:36 GMT -5
I think the offleash/onleash opinion really is fueled by where people live and how they grew up. Growing up, I never had a dog that was allowed offleash. That was mainly because my dogs never listened. I had a border collie/sheltie mix(or we guessed) who just loved to run, but since she was a stray we couldn't make her reliably come back with a recall. Living in NH though, a lot of people had offleash dogs. Empty dirt roads and lots of property make that a common occurance. When I lived in MA with my BT, he was always on a leash. Now that I live in NC in the city I have Lucy on leash all the time around roads, but it is also really common for people to have dogs that have never been on a leash in their lives. Farms, even more land etc... I let Lucy off leash on hikes. She has always been good at it, since she was 3 months old.
However, although I am not opposed to offleash, I do think that when a dog goes deaf around other animals, that they should be on a leash until the problem is resolved. I would work hard at not letting my dog ever chase, and teach eye contact so that he knows to pay attention to you and not the cat. I think it will be well worth the wait for you to keep him on leash until he knows his recall and no longer chases cats.
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snipe
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Post by snipe on Mar 10, 2009 21:00:27 GMT -5
I think the offleash/onleash opinion really is fueled by where people live and how they grew up. Growing up, I never had a dog that was allowed offleash. That was mainly because my dogs never listened. I had a border collie/sheltie mix(or we guessed) who just loved to run, but since she was a stray we couldn't make her reliably come back with a recall. Living in NH though, a lot of people had offleash dogs. Empty dirt roads and lots of property make that a common occurance. When I lived in MA with my BT, he was always on a leash. Now that I live in NC in the city I have Lucy on leash all the time around roads, but it is also really common for people to have dogs that have never been on a leash in their lives. Farms, even more land etc... I let Lucy off leash on hikes. She has always been good at it, since she was 3 months old. However, although I am not opposed to offleash, I do think that when a dog goes deaf around other animals, that they should be on a leash until the problem is resolved. I would work hard at not letting my dog ever chase, and teach eye contact so that he knows to pay attention to you and not the cat. I think it will be well worth the wait for you to keep him on leash until he knows his recall and no longer chases cats. i agree with all of this. but even after training you are still going to have to be extra careful. the valley (i think you said) is where you take you dog in the morning. that sounds like a hike, and would probably be a good place to train
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Post by toospooky on Mar 15, 2009 22:22:37 GMT -5
I love to take my dogs (one at a time, lol) on long hikes. We start out leashed and stay that way if we encounter a lot of people. If it's a bit deserted, I will let them off, especially if I'm running. It is great for training, except for the times that the park ranger caught us.....
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Post by lpyrbby on Mar 16, 2009 5:45:04 GMT -5
I'm all for use of the long line. Why give up control over your dog and allow something bad to happen? Like Mary said? It's really not that hard to handle a long line and 30ft is definitely plenty to stretch and run around. Also, when new dogs come into my home, everyone is leashed for play time initially until everything gets sorted out. We drop the leashes however, my living room is small enough that either person could reach out and have a leash in hand. The reason I mention this is that them playing on a long line with another dog isn't really anything more than dragging a leash while playing. It's long enough that the dogs can play and you aren't directly involved as if it were a 6ft leash. And it's also there in case an unexpected visitor does come by. What makes chasing cats/other small animals so gratifying to these dogs is that it's self benefiting. Any time he's given chase off leash, there's been nothing there to stop him. He knows this. Use a long line and CHANGE that. It will give him the feeling he's off lead and it'll only take a couple of times hitting the end of the lead to realize that he's not in control of the situation. It's your job, to make sure YOU are his focal point. You've done great work with him thus far but we all can do better! Like Mary said above, teach him new things in a boring setting. The more he gets the hand of it, the more you move on to different settings with different distractions. He needs awesome rewards and every bit of encouragement you can give him when he does well and advances to a new point in his training. Do you guys have "clickers" there? Like for clicker training with dogs?
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Post by RealPitBull on Mar 16, 2009 8:44:59 GMT -5
I really hope that everyone who has a dog who could possibly cause harm to another animal would insist on keeping their dogs ON LEASH. Also, please please please be considerate of the fact that many people are frightened of dogs, and even if your Pit Bull is a big mush pot, he can still seem scary charging off leash at some unsuspecting human.
Also, OBEY LEASH LAWS NO MATTER WHAT. I don't care how well trained your dog is, how friendly he is, or if he'd NEVER do anything wrong - if there are leash laws where you are walking, KEEP YOUR DOG ON LEASH.
Off leash Pit Bulls cause SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH TROUBLE for us as a whole, and BSL is being introduced because of incidents that could have easily been avoided had a dog just been kept properly contained. It doesn't look good for the breed to have its caretakers disregarding leash laws, and it certainly isn't good for public image to have loose Pit Bulls frightening random people during walks.
This isn't a mundane matter that can be brushed aside, don't fool yourself into thinking that this doesn't apply to you. IT APPLIES TO ALL OF US.
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