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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 12:39:42 GMT -5
so, i need help. ruby is leash reactive to other dogs . now, if i allow her to meet another strange dog on leash she is fine. she will sniff, wag, play bow, play but really rough, but is fine. if i dont let her meet other dogs, she flips out.. barking/growling/lunging in frustration only because she cant go to the other dog. now i dont let her meet every dog she sees, as some dogs i dont trust, and i dont like that their hackles raise and they stare hard at her, so i wont let her meet those type of dogs.. mellow,playful dogs is another story, those she can meet.. so how the hell do i get her to stop being such an ass on leash when i wont let her meet other dogs?? its VERY embarrassing, as everyone looks at me. it also doesnt help that she is also reactive, if a dog barks she flips out to the point she is at the end of the leash barking/growling/lunging at the dog who barked.. no amount of treats /food/toys is working either, as even when i start before she sees/hears another dog once the dog reacts or she sees it she will ignore everything i stuff in her face and i have to literally drag her away with her looking backward acting out..
i have tried everything
so, any tips?
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Post by bubsy on Apr 13, 2009 12:53:09 GMT -5
Have you read Fiesty Fido? That's a really good read for leash reactive dogs. Murphy can still be somewhat leash reactive, like Ruby, it started out as a frustration thing...he wanted to greet any dog he saw. Now it is different b/c he was attacked twice on lead, so now he flips out when he sees the Lab that ripped his shoulder open. That one was hard to deal with b/c Reagan could be several blocks away, and Murphy would get a whiff of him and immediately get dumped with adrenaline...it would be hard to get him out of that state. In that state he wouldn't take treats either...with any other dog though, treats are fantastic...and he'll focus on me. I wonder if you can get someone to handle a calm, non reactive dog for you...and go out to a large field or somewhere where you can experiment to see how far away Ruby needs to be where she'll take treats? She may need to start out waaaay far away at first. Is she toy motivated?
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Post by OurPack on Apr 13, 2009 13:04:13 GMT -5
You're absolutely correct in NOT letting her meet other dogs she doesn't know face to face. Try distraction techniques BEFORE she sees the other dogs and gets into the "I can't hear you" zone because she so aroused and frustrated. Do it BEFORE. Also, you want her to see other dogs in the hood as a reminder that she's going to get something good. So give her a treat for sitting nicely and looking at you then reward. You must do this before she goes over the top. In training people with dogs that have this behavior that is the single most important mistake that's made. They wait until the dog sees the other dog and goes off then try to correct the behavior. Here's our handout that explains why this happens. www.ourpack.org/aggressreactivity.htmlMarthina
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Post by RealPitBull on Apr 13, 2009 13:12:16 GMT -5
CAT training in reverse (where you use decreased distance as a reward) sounds like it would work for her. Do you have anyone you can use as a decoy? The really brief run down would be:
1) Neutral dog on leash at a distance where Ruby notices but doesn't go nuts. Mark the spot you started. 2) If she remains calm, she begins to approach (a foot or two at a time), then stop. Wait 30 - 60 seconds, and if she remains calm, take another step or two forward. 3) IF she does ANYthing other than a calm approach, turn her around and walk back to where you started. Wait for her to calm (at least 30 seconds), and then proceed above.
You can also do the above with you and RUby stationary, and the decoy dog approaching when Ruby's calm, and departing when she acts up. If done right, and it's a situation in which she is really just wanting to meet the dog but is frustrated, it should work fairly quickly, but then will just have to be generalized.
This technique is really great because you don't have to worry about whether the dog is motivated to earn treats, etc.
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Post by emilys on Apr 13, 2009 13:37:29 GMT -5
I haven't read it, but many people swear by "CONTROL UNLEASHED"
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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 13:43:37 GMT -5
WE DID the treats before she reacted, we clicker trained, we worked from really far away and gradually increased our distance, i did all this BEFORE she got to that state.. however, once a dog barks or acts up or she cant meet them that is when she flips out.. i can power treat her a million times prior to her reacting, but once the OTHER dog makes a noise or jumps is when she goes nuts... i have done the below as well, and i have done the walking away when she acts up.. i think my problem is when she was little i allowed her to approach every other dog we saw that looked friendly, and she imprinted on that, and i can say she has NEVER had a bad experience with meeting other dogs, as i made sure the dogs body language was correct, and i only let her interact a short time and then praised and walked away praising. certain dogs she was allowed to play with as they played her style of playing (the dobe pup at the vets and a few other pups there). she only pitches a fit when she cant meet them up close, or if they bark (not at her but in general or jump up on their owners) then she gets riled and acts like the manners police to try to quiet them down per say.
i did all the below too..
i have also tried the walking closer/walking away when she acts up, that isnt working either... i will not use a head collar as she would break her neck with the way she flips out either.
i have the books Click to Calm, Control Unleashed, and Help for your fearful dog and have used those techniques and i still cant get it right.. and i have been using them for months now...
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Post by RealPitBull on Apr 13, 2009 13:49:00 GMT -5
ME, reverse CAT is what you need. It's more complex than just walking forward/walking away. You might want to try it with the decoy dog approaching, and Ruby stationary. If you ever want to come down one Saturday, I have an awesome little decoy dog we could use.
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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 13:55:17 GMT -5
what are you doing this saturday???? can we come down ???? i never used reverse CAT, so i really need help on it... or next saturday? or the saturday after? when are you free?
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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 13:56:02 GMT -5
i can come early too.....
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Post by RealPitBull on Apr 13, 2009 14:00:06 GMT -5
This Saturday is no good, but you can come the 25th. I have class at 10am if you want to come for that and then we can work with Ruby after 11, or just come for 11.
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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 14:01:44 GMT -5
i can come and do class too.... let me know when you want us there and we will be there. i need the address of class so i can mapquest it too.. 10 am we can be there on the 25th
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Post by RealPitBull on Apr 13, 2009 14:08:25 GMT -5
Just be there a little before 10. It's Unami Park in Garwood, off East St. If Mapquest doesn't help let me know and I'll give you directions.
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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 14:20:55 GMT -5
is it on east st? mapquest says the park is not found... i hate mapquest
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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 14:23:40 GMT -5
ok, expedia gave me these directions but it doesnt say where the park is LOL
At exit 137, keep RIGHT onto Ramp (RT-28 / Roselle Pk / Cranford) 0.2 0:01 13: Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto SR-28 [North Ave E] (Cranford) 0.7 0:01 14: Turn LEFT (South) onto CR-615 [Centennial Ave] 0.1 0:01 15: Turn RIGHT (West) onto CR-610 [South Ave E] 0.3 0:01 16: Keep STRAIGHT onto CR-610 [South Ave W] 0.4 0:01 17: Keep STRAIGHT onto CR-610 [South Ave] 0.5 0:01 18: Turn LEFT (South) onto East St 0.5 0:02 19: Bear LEFT (South) onto Local road(s) 0.1 < 1min End: Arrive End < 0.1 < 1min Total Route 53.0 mi 1 hr 7 mins
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Post by RealPitBull on Apr 13, 2009 14:27:16 GMT -5
Yeah, those directions are fine, just take East St all the way to the end (less than a mile), and you'll hit the park entrance. You can just park anywhere on the street (it's residential). Enter the park on the pavement path, and you'll see off to your left, a slight downward slope towards the picnic areas - that's where we meet.
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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 14:35:08 GMT -5
ok cool, see you at 10am on april 25th and THANK YOU.
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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 14:42:17 GMT -5
can we come to the april 18th class too?
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Post by RealPitBull on Apr 13, 2009 15:04:45 GMT -5
can we come to the april 18th class too? Of course!
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Post by bubsy on Apr 13, 2009 15:22:12 GMT -5
How cool that you guys are going to work together! I'm jealous :-) And you get to meet Miss Ruby!
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Post by maryellen on Apr 13, 2009 16:13:13 GMT -5
ok we will be there the 18th too... i am just so stumped by her, i have never had a dog so difficult to train, i am obviously doing something wrong and i need someone to see me in action to smack me on the head and tell me what i am doing wrong so i can fix it..
busby i even got to meet marys BEAUTIFUL dog a few years ago at her house to..
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