So... fear aggression

[jillybean]

It seems we have a case of it here. In the past I had the habit of letting Jilly ride in the car to take the kids to school in the morning. I should say that I currently live in a garden home with a teeny tiny little yard, about the size of a postage stamp. Thankfully about to change very soon. Anyway, I opened the front door one morning and my daughter, Jilly, and I went out to get in the car. Jilly went straight to the car, dancing around the door, excited to get in. No, not on a leash. Shame, shame. Bad me. Never will I do that again. So we are caught by surprise by a man on the sidewalk in our yard all of a sudden. Jilly is quite alarmed. Who is he? He does not belong here! He is carrying a big stick! He must be bad! So she proceeds to bark quite agressively at him. Yes, she does. I admit it. It was not pretty. Cujo. She was going to get him. So before I can grab her he hits her with his stick, thankfully not whacking her brains in. She gave up the fight, jumped into the car, I apologized profusely and he walked on. So she is the sweetest dog normally. I can't figure out what happened except that she is shaking and her tail is between her legs. She is obviously scared to death.
So a few days a ago I am walking her and we see in the neighborhood my son's basketball coach. He's hitting tennis balls and still holding the racket. He immediately comes up to her and reaches down - a no no when meeting a dog, but still... - she goes cujo again. This time she's on a leash, so I yank her back, no harm done. She shaking like a leaf, tail between her legs. My 8 year old son immediately said "she's afraid you're going to hit her like that man did". She's never been abused, but she's sensitive. Very submissive type. Although not afraid to stand up for herself as we've learned.

So where do you draw the line between fear aggressiveness and human aggressiveness? In her mind I know she sees a threat. I don't want anyone to get hurt and don't want to lose her.

[loverocksalot]

Oh gosh I dont know about this at all but I do know that my dog would be scared to death if someone hit him with a stick. He gets scared of things falling. Once I accidentally hit him with a ball and had to desensitize him of balls.
Someitmes he will bark like crazy at people he knows well. Even my kids if they are carrying something. Especially if the item is black like a jacket. But when they get close enough for him to see them he is like ah DUH. But I am not sure where you draw the line. She will probably need distance work. Like get someone willing to work with you that can aproach from a distance at first. Treating her for not going off or calming when asked. Have person get closer and closer. That kind of thing eventually working your way up to a stick.

[PBLove]

We run a reactive dog class for people that are reactive to other dogs or humans. We created it based on Allie Brown's "Scaredy Dog." I would HIGHLY recommend it, there is a book and a DVD. It teaches you to teach your dog to look to you when there is something scary. I have seen HUGE changes in dogs who before could not walk past another dog/human without going "cujo" on them. It does not surprise me that she is reacting to men holding stick like items now. I would too if I had been hit by one! If you want more information on the book let me know.

[valliesong]

That is a GREAT book. I have read it before.

[jillybean]

Thanks. I will definitely check it out!

[RealPitBull]

I haven't ready Scaredy Dog yet (actually, that's on my to-buy list), but yeah, heard good things about it. You might also look into Click to Calm. HIGHLY recommend that book.

Any aggression that is directed at people is termed "human aggression". Or, I use the term human-directed aggression - tells you that the dog is behaving in an aggressive manner and directing the aggression at humans. Anyway. 99.9999999% of aggression is loosely based on fear (or the need to protect/defend against some threat).

I really think that Jilly is going to need some help with this issue, and it could potentially get worse, and she could actually bite. So for now, please be very careful and keep her away from people she doesn't know. Can you remind me what city/state/area you are in so I could perhaps refer you to a good trainer? Even if you just took one or two lessons, then used the above mentioned books as reference, that could be very helpful.

Also, can you tell me what you are using to walk Jilly right now?

[jillybean]

Apr 5, 2010 13:52:26 GMT -5 RealPitBull said:

I haven't ready Scaredy Dog yet (actually, that's on my to-buy list), but yeah, heard good things about it. You might also look into Click to Calm. HIGHLY recommend that book.

Any aggression that is directed at people is termed "human aggression". Or, I use the term human-directed aggression - tells you that the dog is behaving in an aggressive manner and directing the aggression at humans. Anyway. 99.9999999% of aggression is loosely based on fear (or the need to protect/defend against some threat).

I really think that Jilly is going to need some help with this issue, and it could potentially get worse, and she could actually bite. So for now, please be very careful and keep her away from people she doesn't know. Can you remind me what city/state/area you are in so I could perhaps refer you to a good trainer? Even if you just took one or two lessons, then used the above mentioned books as reference, that could be very helpful.

Also, can you tell me what you are using to walk Jilly right now?

We are moving at the end of May to Huntsville, Al, so keeping her away from ppl she doesn't know might just be a problem. I'm going to have her meet everyone on a leash, for sure. I do walk her with a prong collar. She is a big puller. I do have a no pull harness I can use, too, if you think the collar might be worsening the problem.

[suziriot]

Using an aversive collar (like a choke or prong collar) conditions the dog to associate going for a walk with pain and discomfort. There are many threads here on the forum that discuss the research based evidence that aversive/negative correction training exacerbates fear aggression.

As Erin and Mary suggested, check out Scaredy Dog and Click to Calm. And ditto to Mary's recommendation to find a professional trainer, even if it's only to help you and Jilly get started on the right path. There are also some great discussion threads on clicker training here on RPBF.

[loverocksalot]

I just read this again and I am so sorry this happened to you. My Rocky is quite sweet boy. But ocassionally he senses somone is strange. I would be horrified if this happenend to him. It would really screw him up. He too would be shaking and would imidiately be afraid of people with canes or sticks or if they had anything looks like a stick. I hope things are going ok for her. with your move and all.