Feeding

[catstina]

Hi all,

I don't really come to the Training & Behavior section because I don't have a pup and I'm not experienced enough with training to give advice. I have a question regarding feeding, though. With Benny we had him sit, back up (to where he was about 3-5 feet away from where I was going to put his food bowl) and stay. Then we would put his food bowl down, pause for a few seconds and release him from his stay with an "ok." This worked very well with me.

Recently, though, I was told by a woman who claims to be a professional trainer that you should never feed a dog (any dog) with a bowl because the dog should always be fed with a "work for your food toy" like a kong wobbler. She even said you should feed the dog in his crate. I have never heard either of these things before. I was always told never to feed a dog in his crate. I find it really frustrating because she says that no one should even have a food bowl in their home, only these "work for your food toys." That seems so wrong to me.

What do you all think about this technique?

[bellaru]

Seems to me, the method you are using is correct. Its your food, you are giving it to him to eat. You've established that. He already works for his food by obeying your command of waiting until you've released him to eat.
There are a lot of opinions out there, and methods - but every dog and person is an individual - you have to find what works best for you and your dog. I dont think feeding inside of their crate is something I would practice, but I'm no expert. I can just tell you what my opinion is, and what has worked for me and my dogs.
Bella and Wally are free-eaters, they eat when they are hungry. But I can take the kibble right out of their mouths if I needed to, same with toys and bones. We dont have food aggression. I would think putting food in their crate might create food guarding issues, since most dogs see their crates as their dens.

[RealPitBull]

There is nothing wrong with your feeding technique, Christina. That is the way I generally instruct people to feed their dogs (asking the dogs to "say please" by sitting before getting what they want is, in general, good practice).

Some trainers are really overboard, IMO, with this "making the dog work for it" thing. There are certain situations in which I might suggest feeding at least some meals in a "smart toy", particularly for really drivey/energetic dogs who need the extra stimulation. But to suggest that ALL dogs should be fed this way is kinda ridiculous.

As far as crate feeding, there is always the concern of potential resource guarding developing in SOME dogs, but if the dog doesn't have resource guarding issues and/or barrier aggression issues to begin with, I'm not too concerned. Lots of APBT people feed and treat their dogs in crates because it is safest. There are things you can do, as well, to help ward off any potential RG'ing from developing, namely dropping food into the crate when you approach, handfeeding in the crate here and there, practicing good crate manners (in and out on cue), etc.

[catstina]

What raised the red flags for me was that she said all dogs should be fed with one of these toys. I feel like she was just taking NILIF too far, glad to hear I am not alone in thinking this. I wasn't sure if her method was the new norm or something. I can understand having a toy to feed out of every once in a while, but every meal seemed a bit excessive to me. I can see where some owners might need to feed from the crate now. I had never heard of doing that before but now that you've explained it, it makes sense.

I'm also glad to hear that I was doing the right thing for Benny. We always practiced NILIF with him. Benny had no food aggression I was able to put my hand in his bowl while he was eating, push his muzzle out, and take the bowl away. I practiced this every once in a while to make sure he wasn't developing any aggression. We almost got him a food puzzle ( www.activedogtoys.com/nina_ottosson_dog_puzzles.html ), but he learned it so quickly in the store that we figured it wouldn't even be a challenge for him after a couple of times. We never fed him meals in his crate but we always put marrow bones with peanut butter in them and other treats in there. When we were going to be gone for an extended period of time, I would put some treats/kibble in a 2 liter bottle and poke a couple of holes in it and put it in his crate. It kept him entertained and prevented destruction.

P.S. The dog puzzle are really cool, though. The one Benny tried was called the "Dog Fighter" (awful name, but awesome product). He had to move wooden peg around in their tracks until they reached a larger opening and he could lift them out and retrieve the treat underneath. He did it less than a minute, he was a smartie! They are really neat, but also relatively expensive, so not worth it for a dog who will learn it quickly, IMO.

[catstina]

According to a link that she gave me ( www.dogstardaily.com/training/errorless-chewtoy-training ), "Without a doubt, regularly feeding a new puppy (or adult dog) from a bowl is the single most disastrous mistake in dog husbandry and training." How can they say that? What about every well behaved dog that was fed from a bowl? They go on to say that, "In a sense, each bowl-fed meal steals the puppy's raison d'etre — its very reason for being. Within seconds of gulping his meal, the poor pup now faces a mental void for the rest of his day with nothing but long, lonely hours to worry and fret, or work himself into a frenzy." So I guess every dog's only reason for living is to eat. I understand using toys for enrichment purposes so that the dog uses up his/her energy and doesn't become destructive, but to claim that we are harming our dogs by feeding them from bowls is absolutely ridiculous. Apparently this has a following, too. She says that she is, "part of a network of hundreds who encourage work to eat toys." Oh boy.

[RealPitBull]

I totally don't agree with the above quote, although I haven't read the article, yet.

[RealPitBull]

OK, I read the article. I actually agree with it in general, especially now that I'm understanding it's about puppies and keeping them out of trouble. I think some of it is way overstated, but in general the idea of providing some of your dog's daily food ration in toys to help keep him occupied is a good idea, especially for young dogs likely to get in trouble.

[maryellen]

toys that dispense food is fine and dandy , so is feeding out of a bowl.. if i really liked the loud noise the buster cube makes as rufus slams it into the walls and floors and appliances i would feed him his dinner in there.. however.... i prefer him to eat quietly out of a nice food bowl lol..... he gets his buster cube on rainy days ..

some pups can be hand fed to build a bond, but it wont kill a dog to eat out of a bowl lol..
if you dont like bowls, you can also throw the dogs food on the floor lol and let them eat that way lol....

if i ever fed rufus out of those toy dispensing things he would probably kill me in my sleep since he is way too lazy to figure those out lol

[RealPitBull]

@ ME's post.

Not to mention, as adults, some dogs cannot safely chew toys without being carefully monitored.

[sugar]

I've tried the Buster Cube (on the super easy setting) and Chubs is just more interested in laying down and trying to chew the darn thing. I end up flopping it around more than he does.

[RealPitBull]

The Buster Cube never appealed to Luca. He does enjoy a stuffed Kong, though. But again, here is a dog that cannot be left unattended with a chew toy, because he is Destructo Dog (ok, not so much in his old age). In fact, my paranoid mind always tells people to supervise your dog when chewing. Personally I'd be a nervous wreck knowing my dog had access to a toy all day.

[sugar]

Chubs has his Black Kong during the day, but only really chews on it when people are home (I know this because when I leave for work the toy is in one spot, and when I get home it is in the exact same spot!) I think its more a mental thing, if he doesn't have it around he gets a little antsy, if I put it down he sniffs it and then walks over to his bed and naps for most of the day.

Obviously I watched him when he had the Buster Cube because like I said he was more into just trying to chew it or crack it and since his teeth are already chipped and worn (at only 2ish! Man, I seriously hate whoever had him first!) so I'm very paranoid about him trying to crack the Cube so I just haven't been offering it to him. I've heard of the Kong Wobbler, but to be honest I'm not sure it would hold up to Chubs.

[catstina]

I agree that this method would probably work wonders with puppies that have way too much energy, but it is certainly not right for every dog as they claim and as your stories proven! Haha! ME, you are a riot!

[maryellen]

lol well if it has to do with exerting exercise rufus will protest ... he would rather be fed with grape leaves fanning him while laying on the couch lol then try to work on a buster cube.. he will chew on it and bat it around to make noise, but that stops after a few minutes of overexerting himself

[catstina]

My mom's lab is the same way! When you try to get her to sit for her treats she just gives you a look like, "C'mon, really? Can't you just give me the treat?"