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Post by johnr on Jun 16, 2012 14:15:49 GMT -5
My latest on AFF's page, mirrored on my own:
My home shelter is very careful with where we place ALL dogs, including Pit Bulls and Pit Mixes. We DO take Pit Bull tenacity into account when considering homes with other dogs. Pit Bulls get into fights for pretty much the same reasons any dogs do, but MANY of them do NOT heed submission signals the way almost all other dogs do and we are NOT in the business of setting people up for traumatic experience, other dogs up for injury, our dogs up for failure or the breed up for further infamy because yet another avoidable situation was not avoided. For all our caution, some adoption go awry anyway and we seek to LEARN from these. But also for all our caution, we place a lot more Pit Bulls and Pit Mixes than AFF does, as do MANY shelters. AFF's obsessive focus on tearing down other breed and general dog advocates while themselves playing such a minor role in the rehoming of animals reminds one far too much for comfort of various other national organizations who are focussed far more on image maintenance and knocking the "competition" than in positive results where the rubber really meets the road. Yes, AFF can delete my post here. But in the future, I will mirror my responses on my own wall and elsewhere. (And every time I post responses to AFF's defamatory remarks, I end up with more and more friend requests.)
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Post by emilys on Jun 16, 2012 19:47:38 GMT -5
yeah I was reprimanded for being mean to them because they've done SOOOOO much good fighting the Solesky ruling. Whatever they've done, they have certainly "disappeared" the reality of their first posted reaction, which was "oh really this isn't going to have any consequences; don't worry"....
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Post by catstina on Jun 16, 2012 20:44:32 GMT -5
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Post by odnarb on Jun 16, 2012 21:09:40 GMT -5
I've jumped in on many of these discussions with AFF, Badrap, etc. I'm constantly just  and disgusted. I really should just block them all from my feed so that I can't even see them. I'm grateful for the grant we received at work from AFF, and I'm grateful for their help in the local case with Snickers the Service dog. I am just at where this is headed, though. It's nonsensical. It's probably just as well that I start assimilating myself into Belgians even more. I'm not sure that I'll even own more APBTs/AmStafs at this point in time. Between Iowa BSL and our advocates, I'm quite terrified. |
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Post by michele5611 on Jun 17, 2012 10:17:40 GMT -5
Guess Christina's comment got deleted too.....
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Post by michele5611 on Jun 17, 2012 10:24:21 GMT -5
Per their Facebook page :
We MUST speak accurately about "pit bull" dogs.
Sorry but Is anyone else left scratching their head over the use of the word accurately and "pit bulls" in the same sentence!!
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Post by catstina on Jun 17, 2012 15:05:35 GMT -5
Not only did my comment get deleted, but I can't comment on any other posts/pictures. I believe I've been blocked from the AFF page! And Kim Wolf deleted me as a friend! Because I said something along the lines of, "Seriously? You're blaming Pit Bull Advocates for BSL? Why not go after the people who actually drive BSL instead of people who bust their ass for these dogs every day?"
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Post by melonie on Jun 17, 2012 15:48:25 GMT -5
Maybe there should be a page set up to challenge Kim/Aff etc.
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Post by johnr on Jun 17, 2012 15:50:21 GMT -5
Not only did my comment get deleted, but I can't comment on any other posts/pictures. I believe I've been blocked from the AFF page! And Kim Wolf deleted me as a friend! Because I said something along the lines of, "Seriously? You're blaming Pit Bull Advocates for BSL? Why not go after the people who actually drive BSL instead of people who bust their ass for these dogs every day?" They are showing their true colors and their colors DO run. They are crybabies and cowards. No need for such in any coalition that means to get things done for real! |
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Post by johnr on Jun 17, 2012 15:50:51 GMT -5
Maybe there should be a page set up to challenge Kim/Aff etc. I'm in! |
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Post by catstina on Jun 17, 2012 15:56:00 GMT -5
Maybe we could get RPB's FB page more active?
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Post by johnr on Jun 17, 2012 16:03:21 GMT -5
Maybe we could get RPB's FB page more active? That'd be a good start! |
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Post by melonie on Jun 17, 2012 16:05:16 GMT -5
Would depend on how deep Mary wants to wade into the bs.
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Post by suziriot on Jun 17, 2012 16:45:48 GMT -5
^ There used to be a "coalition" of sorts and it's how I became involved in rescue, how I got involved in the MO500, and how I joined Phoenix Pack. Politics and bs like this is why the parties decided to end it. Not problems within the coalition, but because being the target of people like Kim and her followers takes its toll. It burns good rescuers out. No doubt, we have to stand up to this crap. But from what I've seen over the past several years is that you can't do the actual rescuing AND fight the political fight. It's too much. So I encourage those of you who are such wonderful advocates for the truth to keep getting in their faces.  |
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Post by johnr on Jun 17, 2012 18:59:59 GMT -5
^ There used to be a "coalition" of sorts and it's how I became involved in rescue, how I got involved in the MO500, and how I joined Phoenix Pack. Politics and bs like this is why the parties decided to end it. Not problems within the coalition, but because being the target of people like Kim and her followers takes its toll. It burns good rescuers out. No doubt, we have to stand up to this crap. But from what I've seen over the past several years is that you can't do the actual rescuing AND fight the political fight. It's too much. So I encourage those of you who are such wonderful advocates for the truth to keep getting in their faces. It can be done. There was a time when Veronique Chesser wanted all Pit Bull rescue to revolve around PBRC and PBRC to revolve around Veronique Chesser. PBRC is important, but doesn't rule the world and they are as important as they are in large part because they voted V out long ago. People in Toledo were the whiniest defeatists I've ever heard re "Skeldon always wins" and "Skeldon is forever". Really? Ohio would never reverse course. What makes groups like AFF so toxic is not that they will clearly prevail but that they clearly can't, but can waste a LOT of everyone else's time. Don't worry about changing Kim's mind or even fathoming what her agenda is. No one changed V's mind. No one changed Skeldon's mind. It's not about one on one battles (though they can be done at times.) It's about doing our OWN outreach. RPB may itself be too narrow a group to carry this out. But it's a start, and really great one. |
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Post by johnr on Jun 17, 2012 19:25:02 GMT -5
My latest FB statement:
Pit Bull 101: This shouldn't be necessary, but groups like American Farm Foundation have been spreading recklessly ignorant all around the internet to the effect that a Pit Bull is any dog that someone somewhere is stupid enough to call a Pit Bull. That at least is the logical conclusion of what they are saying. They themselves seem to understand that German Shepherds aren't Pit Bulls, but clearly think that it is okay to call some Mastiff Mix that "looks kinda sorta like a Pit Bull" a Pit Bull. And here is a succinct explanation of why it is NOT okay. Some years back, I was involved with a shelter where that had been a bad bite on premises by a Mastiff Mix. Someone high in the organization announced that there would have to be a mass euthanasia of Pit Bulls at the shelter because of this. I immediately pointed out that the dog in question was NOT a Pit Bull. The person conveying the news to me said "well, yes, but there is a spectrum of breeds in question". I flatly pointed out the TRUTH that there is no "spectrum of breeds" that begins with this Mastiff Mix and ends with Pit Bulls and if one really wants to understand what happened, look into the history of Mastiff dogs being used as stranger wary guardians, as opposed to the history of Pit Bulls as being dogs you can cradle in your arms as you lift one out of a fight, as I have had to do on multiple occasions. Breeds aren't carbon copies and breed traits are only tendencies. But if BSLers from the national to the local level want to target Pit Bulls, educate them on breed traits and why what a Mastiff Mix does is no more relevant to what a Pit Bull would do in the same situation than what a Ibizan or Basenji would do. It is nothing less than outrageous that people who preen about as though they are THE superstars of Pit Bull rescue and advocacy (ask them about their actual rescue numbers!) are asking people to concede the ignorance of turning every dog they want to target into a Pit Bull and every Pit Bull into a dog they want to target. I will discuss in coming days the genuine challenges of IDing Pit Bulls. But for now, just remember: just as properly labelled Dobes are Dobermans and Rotties are Rottweilers, properly labelled Pit Bulls are American Pit Bull Terriers. And while there is tight nexus of breeds (APBTS, AmStaffs, StaffyBulls) that can reasonably be said to be "of the Pit Bull type" and a slightly larger extended family that might include Bull Terriers and Boston Terriers, the further you pan out, the weaker any breed tendencies become. And if you want to call every Fila X Cane Corso X Jagdterrier mix a "Pit Bull" type dog, you better drop all reference to "nanny dogs" and other positive breed traits immediately, as a lot of Molossers and Terriers are NOT famous for being snuggle bunnies with anyone, let alone everyone.
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Post by emilys on Jun 17, 2012 19:53:28 GMT -5
My latest FB statement: Pit Bull 101: This shouldn't be necessary, but groups like American Farm Foundation have been spreading recklessly ignorant all around the internet to the effect that a Pit Bull is any dog that someone somewhere is stupid enough to call a Pit Bull. That at least is the logical conclusion of what they are saying. They themselves seem to understand that German Shepherds aren't Pit Bulls, but clearly think that it is okay to call some Mastiff Mix that "looks kinda sorta like a Pit Bull" a Pit Bull. And here is a succinct explanation of why it is NOT okay. Some years back, I was involved with a shelter where that had been a bad bite on premises by a Mastiff Mix. Someone high in the organization announced that there would have to be a mass euthanasia of Pit Bulls at the shelter because of this. I immediately pointed out that the dog in question was NOT a Pit Bull. The person conveying the news to me said "well, yes, but there is a spectrum of breeds in question". I flatly pointed out the TRUTH that there is no "spectrum of breeds" that begins with this Mastiff Mix and ends with Pit Bulls and if one really wants to understand what happened, look into the history of Mastiff dogs being used as stranger wary guardians, as opposed to the history of Pit Bulls as being dogs you can cradle in your arms as you lift one out of a fight, as I have had to do on multiple occasions. Breeds aren't carbon copies and breed traits are only tendencies. But if BSLers from the national to the local level want to target Pit Bulls, educate them on breed traits and why what a Mastiff Mix does is no more relevant to what a Pit Bull would do in the same situation than what a Ibizan or Basenji would do. It is nothing less than outrageous that people who preen about as though they are THE superstars of Pit Bull rescue and advocacy (ask them about their actual rescue numbers!) are asking people to concede the ignorance of turning every dog they want to target into a Pit Bull and every Pit Bull into a dog they want to target. I will discuss in coming days the genuine challenges of IDing Pit Bulls. But for now, just remember: just as properly labelled Dobes are Dobermans and Rotties are Rottweilers, properly labelled Pit Bulls are American Pit Bull Terriers. And while there is tight nexus of breeds (APBTS, AmStaffs, StaffyBulls) that can reasonably be said to be "of the Pit Bull type" and a slightly larger extended family that might include Bull Terriers and Boston Terriers, the further you pan out, the weaker any breed tendencies become. And if you want to call every Fila X Cane Corso X Jagdterrier mix a "Pit Bull" type dog, you better drop all reference to "nanny dogs" and other positive breed traits immediately, as a lot of Molossers and Terriers are NOT famous for being snuggle bunnies with anyone, let alone everyone. there you go again, John.. using actual real life experiences.! ;D Despite my own personal obsession over trying to understand how people like Kim get into the positions they do, and how "meme"s get transferred, and why some are "sticky" (can you say "nanny dog"???) and some are not, I do sort of agree that fighting this is a waste of time. But, then, not... because this is actually dangerous. Not to the "not pit bulls" they love so much... but to the "real" ones. |
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Post by johnr on Jun 17, 2012 20:49:51 GMT -5
Big difference between fighting THIS vs fighting THEM. Let's refute the garbage and let Kim and the director she supposedly hates so much stay stuck in their "meme trap"!!!
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Post by loverocksalot on Jun 18, 2012 6:55:06 GMT -5
I feel great about the word I get out through RPB and my local lectures. Whenever I do a lecture even when I did War Dogs, RPB, my involvement and passion are always covered. I do it without confrontation and without looking like a nut. Just plain a person who loves her dog, the dog who the community sees as an awesome well behaved, trained dog. I then explain the work and the diligence it takes to own one and not to mention the discrimination and problems you will have if that same well behaved awesome dog gets out of the yard and some one who does not know gets scared when PIT BULL is at large. These are the people I care to get the word out too. THese people probably never heard of AFF or will ever hear their points. And even if they do, they will likely meet or hear about me and Rocky along the way and they will probably trust what I have to say. Most of the people I get the word out to are just the average person who would go to the shelter and adopt a dog and be an accidental pit bull adopter like myself. They wont get the info they need from the shelters around here. But if someone came to one of my lectures they will meet someone along the way and share their changed view which most likely would be fear of the breed but can also be responsible ownership regardless of breed. For me I rather just get the word out to the public rather then waste valuable time arguing with people. I personally would not be pleased with RPB putting up a fight with anyone. Just get the word out and politely stick to your word or admit it when someone has an idea that changed your mind. I fear that some of the groups will start to make some of us look bad.
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Post by johnr on Jun 18, 2012 8:02:27 GMT -5
Right. The main point is to get the word out. But when "other words" are getting out, you can't completely ignore it. Consider the fight against BSL itself. We spend time refuting myths because those myths have attained a certain amount of currency in the world and we can't afford NOT to refute them. The same holds with myths promulgated by ostensible allies who don't act like allies, especially when those myths can and will make things worse. You can't just act like it's not happening.
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I look forward to learning much here