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Post by RealPitBull on Jul 2, 2013 17:44:56 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry, I wrote what I wrote and I stand by it. Period. People can and will twist facts and figures to prove a point, this happens on BOTH sides of the fence.
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Post by maryellen on Jul 2, 2013 17:58:58 GMT -5
mismanagement is rampant- look at all the news cases where the dog was tied up outside/loose and attacked dogs/humans... i wont even get into the human stupidity of sleeping while the toddler walks around the neighborhood unattended.....or not paying attention to a child- those folks should be speutered and have charges pressed on them for child endangerment.. rant over. yes, there are numerous mismanagement issues with owners..between not researching the breed and going out and buying /adopting one to dog parks/not crating/rotating multi dog homes, off leash, etc, the list goes on.hell the neighbor 3 doors down has his dogs loose and isnt home half the time.... the news and papers have stories on this. they are everywhere..
ok so back to genetics.. me personally i would rather tell someone the genetic history and have the owner prepared for possible DA then not .... another big problem is the breed normally DOESNT stop when in a fight- whereas other breeds will stop (for the most part) once the losing dog submits.... a apbt wont stop when the other dog submits- it will keep going..and honestly i feel IMO people should know that history and that genetics plays a huge part in the dogs makeup.. and the ones who brag how their dogs dont fight are the ones who get a nice shock when their dogs do fight and one dies...then they are omgmydogisamonsterwhydidhedothis.....
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Post by Kim Wolf on Jul 2, 2013 18:06:00 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry, I wrote what I wrote and I stand by it. Period. People can and will twist facts and figures to prove a point, this happens on BOTH sides of the fence. It does, that's for sure. But I'm still not understanding what facts you're using to make your claim. Or maybe the question I should be asking is, what constitutes "mismanagement?" I think you explained some important issues and ways to move forward. However, I am alarmed by claims about national trends and increases in breed-specific attacks without having reliable data to support it. |
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Post by Kim Wolf on Jul 2, 2013 18:21:55 GMT -5
mismanagement is rampant- look at all the news cases where the dog was tied up outside/loose and attacked dogs/humans... i wont even get into the human stupidity of sleeping while the toddler walks around the neighborhood unattended.....or not paying attention to a child- those folks should be speutered and have charges pressed on them for child endangerment.. rant over. yes, there are numerous mismanagement issues with owners..between not researching the breed and going out and buying /adopting one to dog parks/not crating/rotating multi dog homes, off leash, etc, the list goes on.hell the neighbor 3 doors down has his dogs loose and isnt home half the time.... the news and papers have stories on this. they are everywhere.. ok so back to genetics.. me personally i would rather tell someone the genetic history and have the owner prepared for possible DA then not .... another big problem is the breed normally DOESNT stop when in a fight- whereas other breeds will stop (for the most part) once the losing dog submits.... a apbt wont stop when the other dog submits- it will keep going..and honestly i feel IMO people should know that history and that genetics plays a huge part in the dogs makeup.. and the ones who brag how their dogs dont fight are the ones who get a nice shock when their dogs do fight and one dies...then they are omgmydogisamonsterwhydidhedothis..... If you're going to claim that "mismanagement is rampant" and cite news cases as evidence, then I have to assume you believe that: (1) the media only refers to "pit bulls" when they mean APBTs, and (2) the media always conducts a thorough investigation before reporting dog bite headlines. But I know you don't believe those things. I know (from reading this forum and the RPB website) that [people here think one of the major issue facing APBTs is how they're blamed for anything/everything a "pit bull" dog does, because these days people use "pit bull" loosely, instead of just referring to APBTs. I know we all agree that the media does not report all dog bites/attacks equally; they report on the ones that make headlines, and that means ones about "pit bulls." I know you don't believe that mismanagement is limited to APBT owners, though they tend to take the hit for all the other reckless dog owners who set their dogs up for failure. So why not say that some APBT owners mismanage their dogs? It's true. And there's reliable evidence to support that claim. However, saying APBT owners account for a "large number of attacks" based on what makes news headlines is sloppy journalism. And it's the same thing we're loathe to accept when mainstream media does it, or when politicians and/or courts rely on it. There's no reliable way to quantify this anyway, so why try? And why put it out there in a way that can work against dog owners like us? We can make the point that some APBT owners mismanage their dogs without contributing to the hysteria targeting the breed and their mindful owners. |
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Post by maryellen on Jul 2, 2013 18:43:40 GMT -5
i never said
and i know that no thorough investigation is done either by media, and the news cases i mentioned i didnt put the links because if i searched for them i would probably get 12 similar ones. the ones i mentioned were examples of mismanagement in general.... parents leave child alone and go to sleep/drunk/high/go shopping and child dies by a dog.... i dont need to site cases of that,hell its everywhere from ankle biting dogs to big dogs lol... i never once said pit bulls, i said mismanagement for the first paragraph that you quoted...
and yes is ALL dog owners of ALL breeds that mismanage... not just apbt owners.
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Post by RealPitBull on Jul 2, 2013 18:50:09 GMT -5
Kim, honestly, I think you are overthinking and reading something into what I wrote that isn't there? It seems you have an issue with two words: increasing and large. I never said breed specific attacks were increasing, I said mismanagement is an increasing problem. I also made it very clear that I was speaking from my personal experiences as a dog trainer/behavior counselor and prez of RPB.
I see mismanagement as an increasing problem - I even went out of my way to state with ALL breeds as I do anytime I make a statement that can be twisted in order to avoid specifically having someone say, "See Pit Bulls/their owners = more/worse/whatever!"; I do see a large number of Pit Bull/"pit bull" attacks reported (doesn't matter what the breed involved actually is in terms of what I'm talking about here - public reads it and sees "pit bull" = one specific breed). People need to know that lack of education leads to mismanagement leads to attacks, of which there are many. "Large" is subjective: you might scan Google news in the morning and read headlines, and to you, it's not a large number of attack reports specifically naming "pit bulls". To me, it's a large number.
Everything you are saying - it's not news to me. ANYTHING that is remotely not seen as nice and fluffy and shooting down BSL (i.e. by using numbers to support the anti-BSL stance) is viewed nowadays by "pit bull" advocates as being harmful and supportive of BSL. I am VERY careful with what I say. But my material will never ever be sanitized to the point where it is devoid of all specificity, nor will I discount my OWN experiences and perceptions and stop sharing those things with people to help educate them.
So here I am yet again being told I'm hurting the breed. WTF ever. To be honest, I'm pretty much done with "pit bull advocacy"; the blog I posted today was written 2+ years ago, I just decided today to put it up because at this point, I don't really care what other advocates think of me. I'm tired of the bullshit, the misinformation, the refusal to be honest with the public and owners, and the sugar-sweet crap that gets pushed down everyone's throat.
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Post by Kim Wolf on Jul 2, 2013 18:56:08 GMT -5
That's the thing: you made so many great points that had me cheering! I thought you covered a lot of ground, and you did it really well -- offering useful information for APBT owners and prospective owners. Understanding dog-dog interactions and dog sensitivity levels are so important, and it's something that hasn't been covered enough by other orgs (both breed specific or dogs in general).
I just can't get behind that one sentence, for the reasons I explained.
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Post by Kim Wolf on Jul 2, 2013 18:56:57 GMT -5
That's the thing: you made so many great points that had me cheering! I thought you covered a lot of ground, and you did it really well -- offering useful information for APBT owners and prospective owners. Understanding dog-dog interactions and dog sensitivity levels are so important, and it's something that hasn't been covered enough by other orgs (both breed specific or dogs in general). I just can't get behind that one sentence, for the reasons I explained. [Whoa, a cheerleader emoticon just appeared -- how did that happen? Cool!) |
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Post by RealPitBull on Jul 2, 2013 19:01:35 GMT -5
^ I fixed that, the emoticon appeared because the tag name was "cheer". Been meaning to fix that, it's annoying to just have emo's pop up when you don't intend it.
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Post by maryellen on Jul 2, 2013 19:05:06 GMT -5
i hope my debating didnt upset you mary.. i love a good debate and like i said i liked your blog
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Post by RealPitBull on Jul 2, 2013 19:07:30 GMT -5
^ Not at all, Maryellen, you know me better than that  I mean, we basically agree. |
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Post by Kim Wolf on Jul 2, 2013 19:07:43 GMT -5
^ I fixed that, the emoticon appeared because the tag name was "cheer". Been meaning to fix that, it's annoying to just have emo's pop up when you don't intend it. It made me giggle! I liked it. |
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Post by maryellen on Jul 2, 2013 20:27:10 GMT -5
Yes we do!
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I mean, we basically agree. 
I look forward to learning much here