|
|
Post by RealPitBull on Jul 9, 2009 11:04:05 GMT -5
Not being able to take a dog in doesn't mean there aren't other ways to help. These groups that are doing the actual evaluations and caring for the dogs are the ones that need financial (and moral!) support. From the Kansas City article: The Humane Society of Missouri is facing an enormous task, housing and evaluating hundreds of dogs swept up in Wednesday’s raids, said the society’s president, Kathy Warnick. Those who wish to help may contribute to the society’s Animal Cruelty Fund at www.hsmo.org. |
|
|
|
Post by emilys on Jul 9, 2009 13:46:42 GMT -5
I'd be more comfortable giving to them if I hadn't read this:
"“We are committed to giving dogs who have come from such horrible abuse the absolute best chance for a good life,” said Debbie Hill, vice president of Operations for the Humane Society of Missouri and director of the temporary shelter. “It is a tragedy that because of mistreatment by humans for financial gain and so-called sport, many dogs used in animal fighting may not ever be able to be placed in a home situation.”
Which sounds like they'll be looking to kill dogs rather than save them.
Of course, no one can expect all the dogs will pass a fair evaluation, let alone that there are homes for so many. But it can make a big difference HOW the evaluators go into it in the first place. With so many dogs, is it just triage? pick out only the really really great dogs and sacrifice the rest?
And while the groups that saved the Vick dogs didn't get any of his $ upfront, they knew there was the prospect of it. I doubt these scumbags have his millions, or the desire to rehabilitate themselves as he did
|
|
|
|
Post by OurPack on Jul 9, 2009 14:49:50 GMT -5
I had no idea how much or if there would be money in the Vick case. There's sort of a misnomer out there about that. Rebecca Huss specifically told me that there actually may be no money whatsoever early on before any of us were approved to take dogs. Most of it was already spent on interim care. I knew there was a chance that this would be out of pocket. At least that's how it was for me. Besides the $ won't last the life of the dogs. I do know what you mean though as far as Vick being wealthy it "looks" different from the outside.
As far as Debbie Hill goes I worked with her on a very large Stoddard County case almost 2 years ago. Zoe our adopted therapy dog came from that very case.
Debbie BEGGED rescues to take dogs from that case. It was Our Pack and Mutts and Stuff in MO that took some in the end that I know of. There could have been others that I didn't hear about though.
She adopted out all types not just marshmellows. Zoe wasn't a marshmellow that's for sure. She did not profile the dogs that I could see at all. There were dogs from 0-100 there.
She was the easiest person I've worked with so far on these cases. What she said or meant in the article could have been jimmied by media, it's happened to me A LOT. The word "many" could have been inserted. To her "many" could have meant 3. Who knows. I just know what I know of her. And I know what I know of the media.
The problem is in a case like this where you have someone like Debbie that places these dogs is that there is NOT enough resources. Can everyone take 5-10 fight bust dogs or more right now? That's partly what it will take to actually save their lives. However, as Mary said there are other ways to help.
The dogs get put down in many cases simply because they have no where to go. Not always but in some cases. I know because I've worked with some of these people and I see that their intentions to help the dogs DA or whatever are genuine. However, the lovely media doesn't report that part, again giving a false impression of the plight of Pit Bulls.
If our local HS had 100s of dogs coming in from something like this they'd be screwed for resources. Screwed big time! No profiling, just no resources.
Also, I saw an extensive video on how HSMO does their evals on Pit Bulls. I watched the evals of many of the Stoddard dogs.They are fair and correct as far as I could see. Debbie FELT for those dogs. The reason that many dogs from Stoddard County were put down was because there were no rescues to take them. That was it in the end.
If anyone has further data on that that I might be missing then please let me know, but that's what I know of it. I don't want to mislead.
We need folks to take these dogs. It's tough to say "hey, why aren't you guys saving the dogs?" Well, where do they put them? They save them, now what? Who's going to be able to spend time helping this shy little dog that was never socialized properly (that's the most common behavior problem among bust dogs btw). A dog that pancakes when you raise your hand to scratch your head. Or stand up to walk across the room etc. It's SAD. And it takes some time.
It really doesn't have much to do with money, not always anyway. It's people, groups to work and take them and help them. They can't live at the shelter and get good remedial behavior care, period.
We need to be getting rescues together to take these dogs, there's LOTS of them. They WILL be put down due to lack of resources if there's nowhere for them to go. That's even worse than profiling because we as advocates we all speak out against profiling but then can't take dogs......which just makes the shelters "right".
I've been in contact with Debbie already. I could almost see the tears through the email. She was THRILLED that Our Pack with our proven track record with their org will be helping with this case.
This is not to say that there aren't cases where the personal from some of these shelters aren't down right scary. I've talked to them as well. It always makes me fell like we should still be talking on the old Bell telephones.
|
|
|
|
Post by RealPitBull on Jul 9, 2009 15:11:54 GMT -5
Thanks for all the clarification, Marthina. I read the above quoted comment differently - not in a negative fashion, just as a statement of fact.
We have to always remember, too, that no matter what, the dog fighters are the ones that are putting these dogs in harm's way. Like you said, resources just aren't available for the most part, and that is ultimately what spells the demise of so many dogs.
I think we have to let down our walls a little right now - the tide is changing, and to help more doors open up for these dogs, we have to be willing to try to look at things from another perspective (i.e. from the standpoint of a shelter manager overwhelmed by too many dogs and not enough resources). I think right now, some orgs need the benefit of the doubt, and to be shown support and that we ARE all willing and able to work together. JMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by OurPack on Jul 9, 2009 15:35:45 GMT -5
Good point Mary!!! Gees, we forget about the original culprits, the dogfighters.
I agree, the quote by Debbie was a statement of fact. However, the media does misquote people too.
|
|
|
|
Post by emilys on Jul 9, 2009 16:43:29 GMT -5
thanks Marthina, that's reassuring. Perhaps my mistrust of HSUS led me to be a little too suspicious. I hope that they will cough up some actual cash money for the dogs' care.
Is Missouri HS related to HSUS?
|
|
|
|
Post by OurPack on Jul 9, 2009 17:00:32 GMT -5
No HSMO is not related or at least they weren't when I worked with Debbie briefly.
It's like all the other HSs throughout the country, they aren't connected usually.
I hope $ gets used for this too.
Regardless of what the HSUS does we are going to help as best we can. They aren't stopping us at this point anyway.
I'm working on 2 dogs from a GA bust right now. They should be coming in about 2 weeks. This shelter manager was AWESOME. She was already taking some dogs from busts out to schools for humane education!
There are some really good folks out there trying so hard to make it go right underneath all the other stuff. One or two orgs can make so many others look bad when they're not.
The other sort of sad thing I hear from mid western or southern shelters is that they don't want to adopt the dogs out in the areas near them, not because of the dogs but because of the type of people that live in their area. I've heard this from Mississippi and Georgia. They let the dogs go and they end up back in the shelter in bad condition. Dog fighting is thick in some of these areas and some feel it's not safe to let them back out again. Even if some good folks take the dogs it's highly likely they're stolen.
I don't think this is a "reason" to euth either, I think it's what some of these folks face, day in and day out. Some of them are almost in tears when talking on the phone and when you say, "yeah we can take one from you" they say, "OHHHH that's wonderful!!"
So there's so much more to it than Oh we hate pit bulls let's kill'm all. Some are and some aren't.
Very hard time for everyone. As Mary said, thanks to the dogfighters.
|
|
|
|
Post by emilys on Jul 9, 2009 21:50:56 GMT -5
your word is good enough for me, Marthina... donation sent.
|
|
|
|
Post by suziriot on Jul 10, 2009 0:14:27 GMT -5
your word is good enough for me, Marthina... donation sent. Ditto! Thank you so much for sharing your inside info, Marthina. The press release on the HSMO website says they also need donations of blankets, towels, fans, etc. I wonder if I might be able to get some people together to do a donation drive and transport the stuff down to St. Louis. It's about a 4 to 5 hour drive from Chicago. I know that in-kind donations are just as important as monetary ones. |
|
|
|
Post by emilys on Jul 10, 2009 9:53:54 GMT -5
your word is good enough for me, Marthina... donation sent. Ditto! Thank you so much for sharing your inside info, Marthina. The press release on the HSMO website says they also need donations of blankets, towels, fans, etc. I wonder if I might be able to get some people together to do a donation drive and transport the stuff down to St. Louis. It's about a 4 to 5 hour drive from Chicago. I know that in-kind donations are just as important as monetary ones. that's a great idea... I wonder if they also wouldn't appreciate folks staying for awhile and helping to clean kennels? You should definitely contact them. |
|
|
|
Post by emilys on Jul 10, 2009 10:08:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by suziriot on Jul 10, 2009 10:49:56 GMT -5
"It's just unclear what will happen," said Wayne Pacelle, head of the Humane Society of the United States. "I think it's pretty certain that a lot of those dogs will not pass a behavioral test."  Why does he think it's his job to lower expectations of how successful the rehabilitation and adoption of bust dogs can be? He's like the Debbie Downer of animal advocacy! HSUS won't be caring for, evaluating, or adopting out these dogs. So why does he get to predetermine what the outcome will be and make it that much harder for all the people who actually DO RESCUE to convince the public that many of these dogs can pass behavior tests and can make wonderful companions. Of course we all know that some of these dogs will not pass evaluation, but that is not the point. And don't even get me started on PETA.  |
|
|
|
Post by OurPack on Jul 10, 2009 12:09:05 GMT -5
Em and Suzi, Thanks so much for the words of support and trust!!! You guys are awesome to help the way that you are! I try to look at this stuff that's said as yackity yack blowhard crap. I know it's frustrating but the most important thing to me is to keep getting the dogs, putting them in therapy and some other work over and over and over and over and brag, brag, brag, brag, brag. That's all we can do. I just don't get that Debbie would fall prey to this crap. I can't see it, at least from what I know. We also do not know anything at all about the dogs in this case. Wayne is making a bubble gum assessment without an eval first. What else is new? They are allowing evals by competent people as far as I know, at least so far. I just want to let it unfold and hopefully there will be some hat eating later! Fingers crossed! Meanwhile here's a big brag on Leo. I posted it on Pit Bulls already. packrescue.blogspot.com/2009/07/surviving-cancer-gettng-through-muck.html#links |
|
|
|
Post by suziriot on Jul 10, 2009 13:04:29 GMT -5
I called HSMO and spoke with their Development Manager. She said that they have plenty of fans and blankets right now but that they could really use TOYS - kongs, nylabones, treat stuffers, etc. So I'm going to try to get something going. I'm the Finance Director at a social services nonprofit and I do a lot of grant writing with our Development Director, so I'm going to work my professional mojo and reach out to my community network.
I also asked about their volunteer needs and she said that she'd get back to me. I'd be willing to go down for a three-day weekend and clean kennels! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by RealPitBull on Jul 10, 2009 14:42:30 GMT -5
I called HSMO and spoke with their Development Manager. She said that they have plenty of fans and blankets right now but that they could really use TOYS - kongs, nylabones, treat stuffers, etc. So I'm going to try to get something going. I'm the Finance Director at a social services nonprofit and I do a lot of grant writing with our Development Director, so I'm going to work my professional mojo and reach out to my community network. I also asked about their volunteer needs and she said that she'd get back to me. I'd be willing to go down for a three-day weekend and clean kennels! ;D WOOHOOO!!! Awesome!!!  |
|
|
|
Post by OurPack on Jul 10, 2009 17:56:52 GMT -5
That's great Suzi!!! |
|
|
|
Post by emilys on Jul 11, 2009 1:27:39 GMT -5
you know, you really have to wonder why the care for the dogs is always thrown back on local groups, often small rescuers or shelters. Why isn't ASPCA/HSUS funding some holding station for the dogs???? it's not like it's a surprise that there are, you know, DOGS, involved in a dogfighting bust. And then you have them blaming the pit bull community, or small volunteer groups, for not "stepping up to the plate" to foster dogs, and using that as an excuse to kill them
|
|
|
|
Post by OurPack on Jul 11, 2009 9:11:15 GMT -5
They are actually not having local pb rescues involved right now. I think there's a thread on pbf. The last post talks about some of the logistics in that thread. It's hard to tell what's going on because it's a fed case. People can't give out many details. I here Randy Lockwood is doing prelim evals. THat's a good thing. He passed 48 dogs out of 50 in the Vick case. So it's still pretty positive.
Still crossing fingers.
|
|
|
|
Post by emilys on Jul 11, 2009 15:47:35 GMT -5
Lockwood is a GOOD thing? We'll he's already been quoted as saying "Many if not most of the animals will be euthanized. They have medical or behavioral issues that prevent them from being placed in homes,” said Lockwood of the ASPCA. “The greatest kindness that might be shown to them is a humane death.” He can't possibly have already inspected/evaluated him before he made this statement.
|
|
|
|
Post by OurPack on Jul 11, 2009 19:52:12 GMT -5
Maybe I'm mistaken. He was involved at the very top of the Vick dog evals. He was instrumental in this from what I've heard. He USED to not be pro but has changed. I heard that it was in the evals that he changed. Just what I heard.
I could only find this from BRs blog.
Quote from Randy a year ago. This was in Bark mag.
"I've changed my own position. I helped draft the HSUS policy (when I worked there) of not placing animals rescued from known dog-fighting operations. I've changed my tune." - Randy Lockwood ASPCA
This sounds to me like someone who would go into this with a good eye but I will definitely stand corrected on this if I'm wrong. I should probably stick to backing up people I've actually worked with and have personally talked to.
However, I don't believe the media really. It's funny how everyone seems to be saying the same exact thing. They CLING to the negative. It just seems VERY contradictory, the above statement and the one you found. I do know that Susan, the one who wrote the above quote from Randy is very accurate having worked with her.
I'll snoop around some more. I haven't read the real recent, recent stuff on this so forgive me for being behind on this a bit. If you see anything else on him Em let me know. I don't want to promote or back up someone IF they really do have the viewpoint you quoted.
As a post script though, as MaryH pointed out (in a the context of "what does 'many' mean?") it is a fact that not every single dog can be saved. Maybe some truly are suffering and there is no hope of them getting better. If he means 5, 10 or 20 out of 200 is that many? I don't know, it depends on how "many" were VERY sick and terminally damaged. The word "most" is what skews it.
This right here is why I won't try to educate too much in the media in sound bites because this is what happens. He could have said a string of things. The media will ask questions to gear toward neg.
Wayne doesn't have that excuse he's openly admitted over and over how he feels and has been very clear.
Here though we have a conflict....confusing.
|
|
I look forward to learning much here