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Post by adoptapitbull on Jul 13, 2011 16:43:29 GMT -5
Sometimes these dogs do things that I can't for the life of me understand.
Mav, Cap, and Gran were taking their after dinner nap in the bedroom. Snorts and Phyl were out in the rest of the house. All of a sudden I hear the sounds of a dog fight. You know the sound, can't even describe it. Put Snorts and Phyl away right away as Jim rushed in the room. Cappy's got Mav pinned down on the ground but Mav has Cappy's mouth in his mouth. Pull them apart after a few seconds and we go to our "corners". Put Cappy away in a crate while I give Mav a look over. Mav's only injury is a bite mark on his leg. Not too bad, really, but I know it must hurt. Cappy's got mostly scratches on his face and a few tiny marks on his muzzle. Thankfully, nothing serious for either.
I'm just wondering, though, WTF?! Haven't had a "real" fight in a long time. That one chicken incident was the first since we moved here, and even then it was very minimal. I'm so upset because this was a completely out of the blue thing. I could understand if they were playing and one got too rough, or something like that. Does this ever happen at your place? Just a seemingly random squabble? I hope I don't have to keep these 2 apart because that would make it sooooo difficult.
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Post by fureverywhere on Jul 13, 2011 18:49:07 GMT -5
Don't know the answer to this one, you would think living together they'd have an understanding worked out. Cats are the same way but think some of it's testosterone based. Everyone is fixed but the three "top cats" corner Chi sometimes out of the blue. She hisses and screams and they walk away, but you can almost see them smirking-yeah we bad...
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Post by Dave on Jul 13, 2011 21:10:47 GMT -5
They can live together in harmony for years, and then a knockdown-dragout can happen, seemingly without a cause. They have their own agenda, and sometimes it doesn't matter what you do, you can't prevent it. And try as you might, you may never be able to identify the trigger. Just keep a close watch when they're together. Just for the record, if you can pull them apart without a stick, it's not a fight.  Years ago, Jackson and Buster used to squabble. I never could see the reason other than Jackson didn't (and never did) want another dog close enough to touch him other than playtime. And today, Lola and Sedona can't be together. Lola just wants to fight. I mean really wants to fight. You can see it in her eyes, posture, demeanor. She's not overt or extreme about it, and they do kissy face with the baby gate between them like they love each other. But Lola is lying. Don't know why. |
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Post by adoptapitbull on Jul 14, 2011 6:13:19 GMT -5
It's so freakin' weird! After we pulled them apart, Cappy was giving the "F You!" stare to Mav and all Mav wanted to do was hide. I let them be apart for about 2 hours, then I let them together again. They didn't want to play with each other, and Mav was a little shaky, but no fighting precursors either. They laid on the couch with a cushion between them and later they laid together on the bed.
For the next few days I'll crate one when I'm not in the room, just in case. Mav's leg hurts him so I don't want a pain response to trigger a fight. They've gotten into it a few times before and have always rebounded back to best buds. I'm just fearing the day that they decide to never be buddies again!
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Post by suziriot on Jul 14, 2011 10:50:31 GMT -5
Just for the record, if you can pull them apart without a stick, it's not a fight. Yeah, there are definitely different "levels" of fights. I'm REALLY vigilant, always watching for warning signs and managing the dogs appropriately. Once in a while, like maybe once or twice a year at most, Otis and Barley will scrap. They're not at all serious and it's easy to get them off each other. Neither dog comes away with more than a little scratch and hurt feelings. But the real fights are where they latch on and WILL NOT BACK DOWN. Those are terrifying. That's how it was with Lebowski when he hit one year old and he's been on crate/rotate ever since. He'll do kissy face with the other dogs through the baby gate or crate, but I know exactly what he would do if he was on the other side with them! |
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Post by Dave on Jul 14, 2011 11:18:26 GMT -5
But the real fights are where they latch on and WILL NOT BACK DOWN. Those are terrifying. Yes, they are. It's hard to keep your cool, your first reaction is to freak and yell and try to pull them apart. That won't separate them. A cool head and planning is what's needed, as well as the right tools. |
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Post by adoptapitbull on Jul 14, 2011 15:52:51 GMT -5
Totally get what you're saying with that. My mom's Pit mixes got into a few where they were panting with their tongues out, bloody drool all over the place, and still thrashing and holding on. Those are the ones that literally tire you out from trying to do whatever you can to free them.
We each held a dog steady so they could not thrash and tear anything while they had a hold of each other. Thankfully, Mav let go of Cap in about 7 seconds. Still, longest 7 seconds of my life!!
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Post by tjamison2001 on Jul 14, 2011 17:59:42 GMT -5
Try a boat air horn. Loud enough to stop anything mid tussle......
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Post by fureverywhere on Jul 14, 2011 18:43:12 GMT -5
And perhaps keep them in harnesses that are easier to grip if ya have to pull them apart alone. Pulling on a regular collar is useless with determined doggies.
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Post by Dave on Jul 14, 2011 19:10:35 GMT -5
Most of the suggestions to separate these dogs in a true fight will absolutely not work. Waterspray just makes them wet. Air horn will not get their attention. They can be so focused that you could light their tails on fire and they wouldn't notice. You can't even choke them out by twisting the collar to cut off their breathing. Holding onto the collar is the best hold. It helps keep them from redirecting the bite. It allows the best leverage to lift their front legs to keep them from using foot friction, and once separated lifting the front half of the body by the collar is the best way to take the power out of their back and rear end. It allows you to control the head so you can use your parting stick. No lie, it's the best tool you can have, and they work. Here's one of many videos out there to illustrate how to separate pit bull dogs that have a hold of each other. www.youtube.com/user/howardpit1#p/u/24/Mevd_GETOKM |
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Post by suziriot on Jul 14, 2011 19:35:54 GMT -5
^ Totally agree Dave. If it's a true pit bull fight, you're going to need a break stick. And a sedative for yourself afterwards. There is truly nothing I dread more than the possibility of having to break up a real fight. I nearly threw up after dealing with my first one because I was so scared that Lebowski had ripped open Otis' throat. I still shudder just thinking about it.  BTW, I'm really glad that this discussion has come up. We haven't really talked about this issue on the forum in a long time, and I think that we have a lot of newer owners on RPBF who could benefit from understanding what to do and what not to do in these situations. |
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Post by emilys on Jul 14, 2011 19:51:22 GMT -5
I feel very very lucky that I have always been present at the early stages of a possible fight and able to break up the action through the judicious application of a pooper scooper combined with screaming...
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Post by Dave on Jul 14, 2011 20:09:38 GMT -5
 @ emily!! I'm generally reluctant to talk about this subject on pet bull forums. Many see it as dogfighting talk, and sometimes accusations are made, implicit or implied, it doesn't matter. But I agree that it's necessary from time to time. It's knowledge that can save doggie lives, and personal injury. |
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Post by melonie on Jul 14, 2011 20:24:41 GMT -5
I would rather know how to break up a dog fight, them end up with a dead dog because of my lack of knowledge. When Mac attacked Cleveland, it took everything I had to get him off of Cleveland. Had Cleveland decided to fight back I would have been screwed.
when your dogs get into a fight it turns you inside out.. Between the fear, and the dismay, you end up wanting to puke
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Post by Dave on Jul 14, 2011 20:30:06 GMT -5
I would rather know how to break up a dog fight, them end up with a dead dog because of my lack of knowledge. When Mac attacked Cleveland, it took everything I had to get him off of Cleveland. Had Cleveland decided to fight back I would have been screwed. when your dogs get into a fight it turns you inside out.. Between the fear, and the dismay, you end up wanting to puke Imagine people doing for enjoyment. That's puke material. |
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Post by suziriot on Jul 14, 2011 20:32:03 GMT -5
I'm generally reluctant to talk about this subject on pet bull forums. Many see it as dogfighting talk, and sometimes accusations are made, implicit or implied, it doesn't matter. But I agree that it's necessary from time to time. It's knowledge that can save doggie lives, and personal injury. That's just another reason why I am so grateful for RPBF. I really appreciate being able to discuss sensitive topics with knowledgeable people who care more about education than drama. |
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Post by fureverywhere on Jul 14, 2011 20:33:11 GMT -5
Dave, two questions...
If you don't have your handy dandy break stick...how to break the grip? Maybe, hopefully, being lifted off their feet will startle them for the second and they let loose? I dunno
The other question is when Ophie's been in close to real live battles the other owners tend to freak.
You have your dog up and you're pulling her away and the other dog is trying to jump again. Worst case and Molly the other owner is frozen with fright. How do you separate them solo?
I suppose screaming "Grab your dog you helpless twit!!!!" is a start?
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Post by adoptapitbull on Jul 14, 2011 20:34:48 GMT -5
Some places even suggest grabbing a male dog's nuts to stop it. Absolutely ridiculous, and does not work...especially when you have neutered dogs! Also heard of lifting them in the air, pulling up on the collar to choke, etc....none of which work.
Stabilizing the head is very important. They are all small enough that we lift them up if we can so that they can't get friction like Dave said. If they can't thrash, twist, or advance, they tend to stop it a bit quicker.
Important note, too, is that if you reach past the collar, you may be get bitten! Keep your hands away from the mouth because they will bite you without having any intention or recollection later.
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Post by Dave on Jul 14, 2011 22:43:07 GMT -5
Dave, two questions... If you don't have your handy dandy break stick...how to break the grip? Maybe, hopefully, being lifted off their feet will startle them for the second and they let loose? I dunno Simply lifting a dog doesn't break their concentration. There's not alot else will work. You keep a grip on the dogs, and hope that you can redirect when they try for a better grip. Not really a possibility, though. Hopefully you can find a substitute for a break stick. DO NOT USE YOUR HANDS. You will be injured. I pulled a cat out of a pit bull mixes' mouth once. I regretted it for weeks. The cat did live, though. You may have to leave the scene and find something you can use in place of a break stick. Best plan ahead, and if it's a play date, bring a stick with you. If you're walking your dog, avoid what can put your dog, or the other, in a fight situation. I always pull my dogs to the side when other dog walkers approach. A "Sit,Stay" command works well in that case. DO NOT be embarrassed to tell other dog owners your dog doesn't play well with others. If you smile when you say that, the other owner won't think badly of you. Just keep pulling your dog away! You must try to avoid contact at all costs. But, the solo separation works like this... Leash the dominant dog and tie it off to something. A fence post, door knob, or frozen owner. Control the other dog by straddling the dog's hips with your knees, walk backwards to stretch out the lead on the other dog, then use your tool on the dog you have control over. Watch the video of which I posted the link. KEEP YOUR BODY PARTS AWAY FROM BOTH DOGS' MOUTHS. I can't stress that enough. Accidental fights are terrifying. But if you keep your head, you can minimize the damage. |
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Post by fureverywhere on Jul 15, 2011 11:01:59 GMT -5
Thank you for excellent feedback for a rattling topic. I'm going to watch that video again and take notes. I know what you mean about not going in mouths. The cat didn't live but at least I tried...between flying claws and scraping myself on Ophie's teeth...  , then your hands are slippery too-Cannot emphasize enough staying away from mouths |
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